Earliest Use of Paired Crescent Moons on Solingen Blades

[peserey]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Peserey, thank you so much for joining us here, and for sharing this wonderful old shashka of your family.

This appears to be a Caucasian shashka of most likely 1890s into early 1900s which is mounted with a Solingen trade blade. It is hard to say for certain as this 'cosmological' arrangement with moon and stars seems copied from some of the motif associated with the Schimmelbusch family. Their markings did not typically have the moon, but various astral symbols with stars in three's. The shape on these correspond to much older Solingen symbols often termed 'cogwheels' but are usually seen as stars.

While Caucasian makers often produced their own blades, typically in Chechnya and copying European marks, the ones on your blade suggest it s a German blade rather than Caucasian.

Thank you. We have our family migrated from the Caucasus in the years 1780-1790. this sword came along with them.

[kronckew]

'nother set of paired crescents, on a takouba

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you for entering this here Kronckew!
This is certainly an interesting perspective on the mystery of the 'dukari' which are of course the paired crescents found mostly on Saharan takouba.

What is unique here, in an apparently quite modern example of the traditional form takouba, is that these curious 'P' marks in semi arc are paired back to back in the same configuration and location at fuller terminals, as the typical crescents known as dukari.

These paired crescents, which seem to invariably occur on takouba blades (some kaskara as well) have many possibilities as to their original meaning or purpose. However, it would seem the most probable was some sort of magical or talismanic imbuement, as has been suggested by various writers on these Saharan tribes.

Though this example is clearly quite modern, the tradition seems to be applied here by interpolation of this letter and arc symbol, which could be connected to any number of meanings. I have seen this on another blade, and Im sure that Iain will have as well.

Interesting!!! and hopefully we might find other examples or suggestions on these markings.

[ulfberth]

Hi All,

so far the earliest version of crescent moon stamps I found was in Hermann Historica auction 71 Lot Nr. 3065 and in this case it was described as a blade of the Munich bladesmith Diefstetter :

"A Swiss hand-and-a-half sword, circa 1570
Long, double-edged blade, each side with a short fuller, the obverse side with a stylised wolf with remnants of brass inlays. Each side of the ricasso with a crescent moon mark of Munich bladesmith Diefstetter"

kind regards

[ulfberth]

Here is a very similar hand and a half sword, with an almost identical blade including the crescent moon stamps on both sides of the ricasso and running wolf on the blade, the pommel is very resembling to.


Kind regards

Ulfberth

[cornelistromp]

amazing beautiful sword !!!( sword post 36 )

what is the connection between Diefstetter and the crescent moon?

Melchior diefstetter had as mark Crossed flails and shield lozengy (checkered shield).

fe post#5

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=diefstetter

Melchior Diefstetter died in 1556.

[ulfberth]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

amazing beautiful sword !!!( sword post 36 )

what is the connection between Diefstetter and the crescent moon?

Melchior diefstetter had as mark Crossed flails and shield lozengy (checkered shield).

fe post#5

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=diefstetter

Melchior Diefstetter died in 1556.

Thanks Jasper !
And yes that is correct, Diefstetter is known to have the crossed flails as a blade mark.
The crescent moon referring as a mark of Diefstetter is how the sword ( post 35 ) was described by Hermann Historica.
I was as surprised as you are, perhaps another later member of the family ?

Kind regards

Ulfberth