THIEVES CAUGHT

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I just was thinking of Battaras terrible loss.... & the couple of large UK sword collections stolen in the last few years, the fact that these rare & exotic swords in large quantities disappear to be never seen again, is probably down to people like that, they know what we collect, they know where we live & the know where to move the product to so it wont be seen again....

[VANDOO]

THIEVES ARE DEVIOUS AND OFTEN WELL ORGANIZED AND HAVE NO REGARD FOR OTHERS. IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE BUT IN TODAY'S SOCIETY WE NOT ONLY HAVE HOME GROWN, GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIZED, PRISON EDUCATED CROOKS WE HAVE CROOKS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD BOTH LEGAL AND ILLEGAL. OFTEN THE LAWS REGULATE THE LAW ABIDING WHILE THE CRIMINALS GET MANY CHANCES AND LOOPHOLES IN THE LAW TO CONTINUE THEIR PROFESSION. THE BATTLE OF GOOD AGAINST EVIL CONTINUES
THE TULSA SHOW IS MOSTLY MODERN GUN RELATED BUT THERE ARE MAJOR DEALERS IN ANTIQUE AND RARE GUNS AS WELL. THERE ARE RELATIVELY FEW ETHNOGRAPHIC ITEMS AND ANTIQUE EDGED WEAPONS AT THE SHOW BUT SOMETHING OCCASIONALLY SHOWS UP. THE BALTIMORE SHOW AND LOUISVILLE SHOWS HAVE A LOT MORE OF THAT SORT OF THING. THE LAS VEGAS SHOW IS SAID TO BE LARGE BUT I HAVE NOT BEEN SO DON'T KNOW WHAT IS AVAILABLE THERE.
THE SHOWS HAVE CHANGED OVER THE YEARS AND SOME LIKE TULSA THAT USED TO HAVE GOOD ETHNOGRAPHIC AND EDGED WEAPON SELECTIONS NO LONGER DO.

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Originally Posted by VANDOO

THIEVES ARE DEVIOUS AND OFTEN WELL ORGANIZED AND HAVE NO REGARD FOR OTHERS. IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE BUT IN TODAY'S SOCIETY WE NOT ONLY HAVE HOME GROWN, GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIZED, PRISON EDUCATED CROOKS WE HAVE CROOKS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD BOTH LEGAL AND ILLEGAL. OFTEN THE LAWS REGULATE THE LAW ABIDING WHILE THE CRIMINALS GET MANY CHANCES AND LOOPHOLES IN THE LAW TO CONTINUE THEIR PROFESSION. .

I don't disagree with what you say, but I do think those 3 pillars of the of the gun & antique trade show community that were just caught, are not immigrants, nor learnt their skills & education at tax payers expense in jail...

[A. G. Maisey]

From 1980 through to about 1992 I took a table at gun shows in Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane. There were occasional thefts at these shows, but my memory tells me that nothing of much consequence was stolen.

However, amongst the dealers who attended these shows two things were taken as given:-

1) collectors steal; many collectors regard theft as a legitimate way in which to add to their collections, these thefts are sometimes uncovered many years later, after the collector dies, sometimes the thefts are never uncovered.

2) no other dealer was to be trusted as far as you could kick him.

In respect of #1 above, my specific field is the Javanese keris, and within keris lore, and Javanese belief, one of the legitimate ways in which to obtain possession of a keris, or any other magically charged item, is by theft. The rationale is that if the magically charged object does not wish to remain with the thief, it will not, however, if the thief is intended to have custody of the object, it will stay with him.

Several months ago I suffered a considerable loss through theft. If and when I am certain of the thief's identity, this person will indeed experience magic.

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That's a Shame Alan... on all counts...

I am totally sure its the reality though..

With kukris they say each finds it rightful owner too..

I guess magic combined with self justification are powerful forces indeed.

I could try to make a joke about well your in Oz , the land of the convicts descendants...

But in truth I am sure its the absolutely the same everywhere.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes, it is probably true that theft is a universal characteristic of human society, perhaps the residual effect of the concept of communal property that existed in more primitive societies.

It may well be that human beings are hard-wired to regard all things as theirs for the taking --- possibly in exchange for something else, possibly by deception or force.

However, the public morality of developed societies is clearly opposed to theft on a small scale, so ultimately most thieves pay a price that far exceeds the value of that which has been stolen.

I emphasise the ideas of small scale theft and public morality.

In the immortal words of Robert Zimmerman:-

"Steal a little and they put you in jail, steal a lot and they make you a king"

Theft permeates our very being.

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A very true quote Alan.

Psychologically I have to agree that's probably all true.... as even collecting of unnecessary items is probably also a perversion of our innate hunting instinct, First we look for our prey, searching hi & low.

Then we spot it & then hunt it down by wealth compete with the other hunters {If at Bonhams/sothebys & the private top ethnographic arms dealers etc.} Or we hunt it down by trawling the web etc. for the unrecognised & badly described pieces using our knowledge against those of the sellers & indeed once again the other hunters...

We then have that achievement of obtaining that item {The kill..}

Of course being hunter gatherers, even if the result is good, {Tasted good}{Sadly some don't... ) We are soon on the hunt for new prey again...

So I guess on our most basic of needs, theft is just another technique to achieve our prey...If we have rejected society's training in moralism.

As a friend of mine , who many decades ago who was the youngest man to ever get into the SAS was told, during psychological interviews after he explained he could easily kill a true enemy but wasn't sure he could cope with deliberately killing an innocent... "Don't worry about that you've got 19 years of civilisation in you , but a million years of survival." & " we will help get You back to that place to do whatever job is required." {first part as quoted, second as paraphrase as cant remember the exact words, just the meaning from that 30 year old conversation.}