7th April 2015, 01:21 AM | #1 | |
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Reproduction hooded katars?
This group of hooded katars were sold recently, they look fake to me, any other opinions would be appreciated.
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7th April 2015, 01:39 AM | #2 |
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Oh dear
These look purely decorative to me and seem to have been made out of sheet metal. There appears to be some stable corrosion remaining in some places, while other places look as though they have been heavily abraded and perhaps polished. Given the thinness of the metal guards, I'm surprised that none of them show any dings from use or bumping about if they are indeed old. Not weapons I would stake my life on.
These have enough negative features that would certainly dissuade me from bidding on them. I hope none of our fellow forumites bought them at that price. Ian. |
7th April 2015, 02:03 AM | #3 |
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I wouldn't even pick up the ten foot pole .
Workmanship is atrocious, IMO . |
7th April 2015, 10:26 AM | #4 |
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HI THESE ARE 100% FAKE AND ARE CALLED AS HOODED KATARS FROM TANJORE,SOUTH INDIA,LOT OF THESE ARE MADE IN UDAIPUR ,RAJASTHAN AND ONE CAN BUY THEM FOR 80 -100 $,BUYERS BEWARE
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7th April 2015, 12:38 PM | #5 |
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What kind of technique was used to imitate their heavy patination/thick black rust?
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7th April 2015, 12:59 PM | #6 | |
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Thanks for your opinions, I agree completely, the same seller also sold 2 pata swords that are "reproductions" as well.
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7th April 2015, 01:40 PM | #7 |
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"What kind of technique was used to imitate their heavy patination/thick black rust?"
You put the objects in the ground with water for few weeks then you will have some rust, clean the objects with an oily product and you will get the same patina. If you are in India or Tropical Africa, the rust will come very rapidly. You can also use salt or rotten eggs... Kubur |
7th April 2015, 02:11 PM | #8 |
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i saw both those, and for the fun of it turned in a small bid on both to get the ball rolling, i bid less than the postage, knowing it would soon grow. i was suspicious of the thin katar blades, and the flathead screws on the the patas the brass looked thin & shoddy too, so i never increased my bid. was amazed at ho high they finally sold for.
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7th April 2015, 02:42 PM | #9 |
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I sent the seller a message that the items from these two auctions were "reproductions", they have a 100% rating and quite probably did not realize that these items were not authentic antiques. Unfortunately some buyers have now wasted their money, at some point they will realize that these items are not antiques. The seller can do the right thing and at least look into the possibility that they were fooled when they bought these fakes. If they are honest they can still cancel the sale.
goodfindsmine (84 ), 100% Positive feedback |
7th April 2015, 07:15 PM | #10 |
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I found 4 identical katars on the local Craigslist. Seller wants $2500. I'd post the link but its an ongoing sale
Seller wants cash and to be rid of them by tomorrow. In Baltimore Interestingly, this post went up 10 days ago so it might be unrelated to the eBay sale. Last edited by blue lander; 7th April 2015 at 07:30 PM. |
7th April 2015, 09:08 PM | #11 |
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A TIMELY REMINDER
I think that this thread is very timely as there is a real rash of what in my opinion are "suspect" items for sale/auction at present on a well known website. These items are being sold from India and in many cases are described as "rare" and "old". Better described IMHO as "common" and "new"
BE VERY CAREFUL |
12th April 2015, 12:42 PM | #12 |
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At the risk of appearing totally clueless... I see nothing in these katars that suggests they are new fakes to me. They look totally typical South Indian Katars of this species 17th-18th c. Original condition 'lump of rust' and then polished rajasthan style with an angle grinder/and buffing wheel. In my opinion they are genuine - there are many around. nothing suggests otherwise to me. The quality of this type varies a lot from magnificent to very poor quality.
Last edited by ashoka; 12th April 2015 at 01:55 PM. |
13th April 2015, 07:43 AM | #13 | |
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13th April 2015, 09:31 AM | #14 |
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These are not fakes either in my opinion, I haven't exactly seen that configuration before with the makarra heads holding the blade, but there are many lightweight brass patahs and other weapons from South India in this general style. Usually weakly constructed and presumably for temple and dance use. They are old, I hope the seller does not take issue with his name being posted on here next to words such as honesty and fake, as that seems a little harsh. Whether you like these pieces or not is another matter.
Last edited by ashoka; 13th April 2015 at 10:27 AM. |
13th April 2015, 12:39 PM | #15 |
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That was exactly the reason why I asked the question about rust/ patina.
Having seen quite few of such katars, I would not be so categorical about calling them fake. Just low-level, worn-out , but genuinely old junky katars. As to the patas.... When did they start using screws from Home Depot in India?:-) |
13th April 2015, 02:09 PM | #16 |
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Urine is an excellent "patinating" agent. An item buried in the ground after being tinkled on, will look 80 years old in two days. I understand the Chinese use chicken poop, neutralized with diesel fuel.
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13th April 2015, 03:05 PM | #17 |
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[QUOTE=ashoka]At the risk of appearing totally clueless... I see nothing in these katars that suggests they are new fakes to me. QUOTE]
Four different blades with exactly the same state of corrosion after 200-300 years? Never! Forging job is poor, the decoration is extremely poor, the steel quality seems to be below average. I can see no pattern welded steel and also no wootz, just trash. Chinese and Africans are highly skilled in artificially aging of metal or wood and it is not so hard as you may think. Kind Regards Roland |
13th April 2015, 03:46 PM | #18 |
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They aren't even particularly low level ones in my humble opinion, pretty reasonable quality. Years of use being polished with sand and abrasives, rusted totally then repolished badly with a buffing wheel makes them look worse than they are., with deep black pitting and the black buffing wax allover them. The decoration is pretty good, one has the two parrots found on Tanjore weapons. Better ones of these have the forte reinforced with an extra plate, these ones have it chiselled instead. re.Patahs - Screws do turn up in these decorative/ceremonial pieces, it doesn't discount them as being 19th century I think, it also does not indicate they are fakes either. In my opinion... I don't agree they have been artificially patinated in any way, the patina of both is typical.
Last edited by ashoka; 13th April 2015 at 07:36 PM. |
13th April 2015, 04:44 PM | #19 | |
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[QUOTE=Roland_M]
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Last edited by ashoka; 13th April 2015 at 05:36 PM. |
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13th April 2015, 06:25 PM | #20 |
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For what its worth the katars I saw on craigslist looked nearly identical to my untrained eyes to these in decoration, condition and construction. The pictures themselves were different than those of the eBay auction and I believe it was posted before the eBay auction ended.
The Craigslist add is gone now and I didn't think to save pictures. |
22nd April 2015, 03:49 PM | #21 |
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I agree with Stefan that these are NOT fakes. 17th/18thC and been wire wheeled. I don't think they were ever of the best quality, but they are armoury examples that have been left to rot, and then in recent years been over cleaned.
The form is completely standard for this type of dagger, and the proportions look ok, the fullers and designs on the hood look a little crude, but my gut tells me these are old. I think the craigslist advert is probably the same seller maximising his chance of selling the daggers. Regards Runjeet |
15th May 2015, 09:16 AM | #22 | |
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