Reproduction hooded katars?

estcrh · 7th April 2015, 02:42 PM

I sent the seller a message that the items from these two auctions were "reproductions", they have a 100% rating and quite probably did not realize that these items were not authentic antiques. Unfortunately some buyers have now wasted their money, at some point they will realize that these items are not antiques. The seller can do the right thing and at least look into the possibility that they were fooled when they bought these fakes. If they are honest they can still cancel the sale.

goodfindsmine (84 ), 100% Positive feedback

blue lander · 7th April 2015, 07:15 PM

I found 4 identical katars on the local Craigslist. Seller wants $2500. I'd post the link but its an ongoing sale

Seller wants cash and to be rid of them by tomorrow. In Baltimore

Interestingly, this post went up 10 days ago so it might be unrelated to the eBay sale.

kahnjar1 · 7th April 2015, 09:08 PM

I think that this thread is very timely as there is a real rash of what in my opinion are "suspect" items for sale/auction at present on a well known website. These items are being sold from India and in many cases are described as "rare" and "old". Better described IMHO as "common" and "new"
BE VERY CAREFUL

ashoka · 12th April 2015, 12:42 PM

At the risk of appearing totally clueless... I see nothing in these katars that suggests they are new fakes to me. They look totally typical South Indian Katars of this species 17th-18th c. Original condition 'lump of rust' and then polished rajasthan style with an angle grinder/and buffing wheel. In my opinion they are genuine - there are many around. nothing suggests otherwise to me. The quality of this type varies a lot from magnificent to very poor quality.

estcrh · 13th April 2015, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashoka

At the risk of appearing totally clueless... I see nothing in these katars that suggests they are new fakes to me. They look totally typical South Indian Katars of this species 17th-18th c. Original condition 'lump of rust' and then polished rajasthan style with an angle grinder/and buffing wheel. In my opinion they are genuine - there are many around. nothing suggests otherwise to me. The quality of this type varies a lot from magnificent to very poor quality.

Its good to hear some different opinions, how about the two pata?

ashoka · 13th April 2015, 09:31 AM

These are not fakes either in my opinion, I haven't exactly seen that configuration before with the makarra heads holding the blade, but there are many lightweight brass patahs and other weapons from South India in this general style. Usually weakly constructed and presumably for temple and dance use. They are old, I hope the seller does not take issue with his name being posted on here next to words such as honesty and fake, as that seems a little harsh. Whether you like these pieces or not is another matter.

ariel · 13th April 2015, 12:39 PM

That was exactly the reason why I asked the question about rust/ patina.
Having seen quite few of such katars, I would not be so categorical about calling them fake. Just low-level, worn-out , but genuinely old junky katars.

As to the patas.... When did they start using screws from Home Depot in India?:-)

Roland_M · 13th April 2015, 03:05 PM

[QUOTE=ashoka]At the risk of appearing totally clueless... I see nothing in these katars that suggests they are new fakes to me. QUOTE]

Four different blades with exactly the same state of corrosion after 200-300 years? Never!
Forging job is poor, the decoration is extremely poor, the steel quality seems to be below average. I can see no pattern welded steel and also no wootz, just trash.

Chinese and Africans are highly skilled in artificially aging of metal or wood and it is not so hard as you may think.

Kind Regards Roland

ashoka · 13th April 2015, 04:44 PM

[QUOTE=Roland_M]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashoka

At the risk of appearing totally clueless... I see nothing in these katars that suggests they are new fakes to me. QUOTE]

Four different blades with exactly the same state of corrosion after 200-300 years? Never!
Forging job is poor, the decoration is extremely poor, the steel quality seems to be below average. I can see no pattern welded steel and also no wootz, just trash.

Chinese and Africans are highly skilled in artificially aging of metal or wood and it is not so hard as you may think.

Kind Regards Roland

There are thousands of heavily rusted Indian weapons with the same patination from armouries and the Indian climate, it is totally typical. And hundreds of these weapons similarly ruined by the mechanical cleaning of the Indian dealers as seen here, again typical. They end up looking awful. Many of the super-plain katars that used to sell in bulk on ebay had gone through this process, probably they still sell on there. As to quality of chiselling that's a matter of taste. Most of the decoration has almost been worn off in areas due to the modern cleaning and but mainly old wear. Wootz or pattern welding would not be visible from those photos and condition, unlikely for this grade weapon/blade type anyway. I,m somewhat surprised by the extremes of opinion here, one mans trash is another mans um.. well I wouldn't call this treasure exactly.

blue lander · 13th April 2015, 06:25 PM

For what its worth the katars I saw on craigslist looked nearly identical to my untrained eyes to these in decoration, condition and construction. The pictures themselves were different than those of the eBay auction and I believe it was posted before the eBay auction ended.

The Craigslist add is gone now and I didn't think to save pictures.

7th April 2015, 07:15 PM	#2
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	I found 4 identical katars on the local Craigslist. Seller wants $2500. I'd post the link but its an ongoing sale Seller wants cash and to be rid of them by tomorrow. In Baltimore Interestingly, this post went up 10 days ago so it might be unrelated to the eBay sale. Last edited by blue lander; 7th April 2015 at 07:30 PM.

7th April 2015, 09:08 PM	#3
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,786	A TIMELY REMINDER I think that this thread is very timely as there is a real rash of what in my opinion are "suspect" items for sale/auction at present on a well known website. These items are being sold from India and in many cases are described as "rare" and "old". Better described IMHO as "common" and "new" BE VERY CAREFUL

12th April 2015, 12:42 PM	#4
ashoka Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 61	At the risk of appearing totally clueless... I see nothing in these katars that suggests they are new fakes to me. They look totally typical South Indian Katars of this species 17th-18th c. Original condition 'lump of rust' and then polished rajasthan style with an angle grinder/and buffing wheel. In my opinion they are genuine - there are many around. nothing suggests otherwise to me. The quality of this type varies a lot from magnificent to very poor quality. Last edited by ashoka; 12th April 2015 at 01:55 PM.

13th April 2015, 09:31 AM	#6
ashoka Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 61	These are not fakes either in my opinion, I haven't exactly seen that configuration before with the makarra heads holding the blade, but there are many lightweight brass patahs and other weapons from South India in this general style. Usually weakly constructed and presumably for temple and dance use. They are old, I hope the seller does not take issue with his name being posted on here next to words such as honesty and fake, as that seems a little harsh. Whether you like these pieces or not is another matter. Last edited by ashoka; 13th April 2015 at 10:27 AM.

7th April 2015, 02:42 PM	#1
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,492	I sent the seller a message that the items from these two auctions were "reproductions", they have a 100% rating and quite probably did not realize that these items were not authentic antiques. Unfortunately some buyers have now wasted their money, at some point they will realize that these items are not antiques. The seller can do the right thing and at least look into the possibility that they were fooled when they bought these fakes. If they are honest they can still cancel the sale. goodfindsmine (84 ), 100% Positive feedback

13th April 2015, 12:39 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	That was exactly the reason why I asked the question about rust/ patina. Having seen quite few of such katars, I would not be so categorical about calling them fake. Just low-level, worn-out , but genuinely old junky katars. As to the patas.... When did they start using screws from Home Depot in India?:-)

13th April 2015, 03:05 PM	#8
Roland_M Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 525	[QUOTE=ashoka]At the risk of appearing totally clueless... I see nothing in these katars that suggests they are new fakes to me. QUOTE] Four different blades with exactly the same state of corrosion after 200-300 years? Never! Forging job is poor, the decoration is extremely poor, the steel quality seems to be below average. I can see no pattern welded steel and also no wootz, just trash. Chinese and Africans are highly skilled in artificially aging of metal or wood and it is not so hard as you may think. Kind Regards Roland

13th April 2015, 06:25 PM	#10
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	For what its worth the katars I saw on craigslist looked nearly identical to my untrained eyes to these in decoration, condition and construction. The pictures themselves were different than those of the eBay auction and I believe it was posted before the eBay auction ended. The Craigslist add is gone now and I didn't think to save pictures.