Earliest Use of Paired Crescent Moons on Solingen Blades

Norman McCormick · 6th April 2015, 09:13 PM

Hi,
More scattered crescents on other parts of blade.
Regards,
Norman.

ulfberth · 7th April 2015, 08:11 AM

Hi Norman,

that is a very nice small sword, beautiful guard and nice blade to.
I think that the engraved crescent moons are mostly used as a symbolic or decoration on the blade, but just as interesting of course, whereas the stamps were uses as marks for identification and or quality.

Kind regards

Ulfberth

Norman McCormick · 7th April 2015, 06:14 PM

Hi Ulfberth,
I thought possibly this image with the paired crescents may be applicable.
My Regards,
Norman.

Jim McDougall · 7th April 2015, 07:41 PM

Thank you so much Norman and Ulfberth for these great examples! as well as the well placed observations.
As noted in the title of this thread, this query is prompted by questions pertaining to the occurrence of faced crescent moons on European blades, particularly those which appear on the blade center near the terminus of fullers.

There is of course a great deal of speculative analysis on what the symbolic or in some cases, talismanic meaning of these crescent moons might have been. This undoubtedly varied in the perceptions of the many circumstances in which they were applied. While this presents fascinating opportunities for possibilities, it is the curious case of multiples in their application, as well as the configuration and position on the blade which is most intriguing.

We know that various stamped marks were placed on European blades and often in multiples as have been seen on examples seen in this thread. It seems that typically makers stamps are most often at the forte on earlier European blades. In the case of most astral themes containing crescent moons as well as stars, sun etc. these are inscribed in central areas of the blade field.

The crescent moons, in pairs, are well known in Saharan regions primarily in North Africa and found on various broadsword blades. These occur invariably at blade center near fullers. We know that large volumes of these blades came from Europe as trade products. We also know that these 'trade' blades apparently inspired native armourers to apply these marks to blades they made as well as others.

It has long been suggested that Solingen indeed produced blades for export to North Africa much as for their many client entrepots in many countries .
It seems these blades may well have been stamped with the moons in Europe in accord with much earlier blade forms also made there.

What we need to discover, and hopefully those of you who have access to resources on Solingen history might have, is some kind of specific reference to documented record of such exports to African markets. Perhaps in addition to finding just how early these moons were used on European blades, we might determine when blades to North Africa began specific export, and if these used the moons.

ulfberth · 9th April 2015, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi Ulfberth,
I thought possibly this image with the paired crescents may be applicable.
My Regards,
Norman.

Hello Norman,
good point and indeed it is, my attention was drawn towards the big moon, however the smaller crescents seem to be an engraved version and in the same place were most stamps are on the broad sword blades.
On rapier blades the moons mostly seem to appear on the forte.

kind regards
Ulfberth

Jim McDougall · 9th April 2015, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ulfberth

Hello Norman,
good point and indeed it is, my attention was drawn towards the big moon, however the smaller crescents seem to be an engraved version and in the same place were most stamps are on the broad sword blades.
On rapier blades the moons mostly seem to appear on the forte.

kind regards
Ulfberth

Well said! and indeed Norman this significant motif is of course pertinent as while of course later period, it recognizes the use of paired moons in earlier times as they became associated with quality and other imbued occult symbolism. In these later times, groupings of various cosmological devices alluded to occult and talismanic allegories, and apparently often included the by then, venerable, paired moons as recognized embellishment.

ulfberth · 16th April 2015, 08:56 AM

Hi all,

I found another one, described as a 17th century schiavona.
Jim , Iain , any thoughts on the blade ?
Altough the crescent moons are not that visible in the picture, the shape of the blade and the fullers resembles the kaskara.

kind regards

Ulfberth

Iain · 16th April 2015, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ulfberth

Hi all,

I found another one, described as a 17th century schiavona.
Jim , Iain , any thoughts on the blade ?
Altough the crescent moons are not that visible in the picture, the shape of the blade and the fullers resembles tha kaskara.

kind regards

Ulfberth

Not seeing an image.

cornelistromp · 16th April 2015, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ulfberth

Hi all,

I found another one, described as a 17th century schiavona.
Jim , Iain , any thoughts on the blade ?
Altough the crescent moons are not that visible in the picture, the shape of the blade and the fullers resembles the kaskara.

kind regards

Ulfberth

No, this does not mean that there is a link with Africa/Kaskara
this type of blade with triple fullers, with the middle fuller longer and sometimes extending to the point, occurs frequently from 1500 onwards in Europe, both on German and Italian swords! often without moons.

best,
jasper

6th April 2015, 09:13 PM	#1
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,613	Hi, More scattered crescents on other parts of blade. Regards, Norman. Attached Images

7th April 2015, 06:14 PM	#3
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,613	Hi Ulfberth, I thought possibly this image with the paired crescents may be applicable. My Regards, Norman. Attached Images

16th April 2015, 08:56 AM	#7
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 412	Hi all, I found another one, described as a 17th century schiavona. Jim , Iain , any thoughts on the blade ? Altough the crescent moons are not that visible in the picture, the shape of the blade and the fullers resembles the kaskara. kind regards Ulfberth Last edited by ulfberth; 16th April 2015 at 11:57 AM.

7th April 2015, 08:11 AM	#2
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 412	Hi Norman, that is a very nice small sword, beautiful guard and nice blade to. I think that the engraved crescent moons are mostly used as a symbolic or decoration on the blade, but just as interesting of course, whereas the stamps were uses as marks for identification and or quality. Kind regards Ulfberth

7th April 2015, 07:41 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Thank you so much Norman and Ulfberth for these great examples! as well as the well placed observations. As noted in the title of this thread, this query is prompted by questions pertaining to the occurrence of faced crescent moons on European blades, particularly those which appear on the blade center near the terminus of fullers. There is of course a great deal of speculative analysis on what the symbolic or in some cases, talismanic meaning of these crescent moons might have been. This undoubtedly varied in the perceptions of the many circumstances in which they were applied. While this presents fascinating opportunities for possibilities, it is the curious case of multiples in their application, as well as the configuration and position on the blade which is most intriguing. We know that various stamped marks were placed on European blades and often in multiples as have been seen on examples seen in this thread. It seems that typically makers stamps are most often at the forte on earlier European blades. In the case of most astral themes containing crescent moons as well as stars, sun etc. these are inscribed in central areas of the blade field. The crescent moons, in pairs, are well known in Saharan regions primarily in North Africa and found on various broadsword blades. These occur invariably at blade center near fullers. We know that large volumes of these blades came from Europe as trade products. We also know that these 'trade' blades apparently inspired native armourers to apply these marks to blades they made as well as others. It has long been suggested that Solingen indeed produced blades for export to North Africa much as for their many client entrepots in many countries . It seems these blades may well have been stamped with the moons in Europe in accord with much earlier blade forms also made there. What we need to discover, and hopefully those of you who have access to resources on Solingen history might have, is some kind of specific reference to documented record of such exports to African markets. Perhaps in addition to finding just how early these moons were used on European blades, we might determine when blades to North Africa began specific export, and if these used the moons.