Ottoman Bichaq help

[Battara]

Already helpful, thank you. Although my bichaq is Ottoman, the empire also included Algeria as well.

[Battara]

I was originally thinking that this was more Balkan due to the silver motif and style used. I did not think that the same motif and style was also used in Algeria, even though it was part of the empire.

[Kubur]

Hi Battara

It is from Algeria and Ottoman.
I will post later some examples with the same plain and simple hilt/grip.
Exactly like yours.

Plus surprisingly when I did some researches about this bichaq I found yours on a very famous dealer website
https://www.antiqueswords.com/produc...q-ca-1830.html

[kronckew]

knice knife. me like. outta my price range tho.

[Battara]

Yes Kubir, it originally came from him, although I didn't get from him directly (did some trade of some of my restoration work.......)

[Kubur]

http://www.ashokaarts.com/shop/ottom...a-north-africa

http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=5582

They look nice, they are ottomans, but from Algeria.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Kubur

http://www.ashokaarts.com/shop/ottom...a-north-africa

http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=5582

They look nice, they are ottomans, but from Algeria.

Both of these are described as potentially being from North Africa, possibly Algeria, only one states the reasoning behind this attribution (the lobed pommel). What exactly makes a weapon "Algerian"?

An attractive Ottoman shamshir sword probably from Algeria or North Africa.
http://www.ashokaarts.com/shop/ottom...a-north-africa


This rare form of Yataghan, with the lobed pommel is usually attributed as North African, probably Algeria.
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=5582

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Kubur

I will post later some examples with the same plain and simple hilt/grip.
Exactly like yours.

Kubur I would like to see your examples as I have never seen another one with the same grip shape Kubur as the one that Battara posted.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Battara

It is from Algeria and Ottoman.

Plus surprisingly when I did some researches about this bichaq I found yours on a very famous dealer website
https://www.antiqueswords.com/produc...q-ca-1830.html

This dealer also makes states no reason why this is being described as an "Algerian" weapon.

A good Ottoman Algerian Bichaq, ca. 1830

[estcrh]

The scabbard of this yatahan has a clear North African influence. The scabbard of the bichaq that battara posted looks like a typical Ottoman scabbard.

[Kubur]

Hi all

Thanks for your last example.
I'm sorry I can't find the dagger that I told you.
I will look again, may be some members could help.

For your 'Ottoman' concern.

It's funny I have discussed this previously in several posts.
Basically people know that Ottoman empire was big.
But when we talk about arms and armors, they just think about Turkey and Balkans.

We have probably the same books: some books focus on a particular area like Elgood with the Balkans, others focus on a collection like Pinchot.
But these books don't cover the whole Ottoman empire.
And sometimes you have a lot of mistakes like Tirri's book (who stays an excellent reference).

I'm very interested in North Africa (Morocco, Algeria,Tunisia and Egypt).
I will post more stuff to enlarge a limited narrowed vision on Balkans and Turkey.

To finish, you can find Balkans arms in Algeria and the pistols with coral inlays are not all from Algeria...
Just guys open your mind to other area of the Ottoman empire (like Hijaz for example)...

Kubur

[BANDOOK]

KUBUR NICE ALGERIAN BLUNDERBAS,INCASE IF YOU EVER DECIDE TO SELL ,DO LET ME KNOW,KIND REGARDS RAJESH

[Sancar]

I don't know if this blade is from Balkans, Anatolia or Magrip, but when a Ottoman "bıçak" have a slight S curve and generally looks like a miniature yatağan(though most later examples are not this nice), it is usually called "saldırma" or attack(knife) in Turkish terminology.

As you can deduce from the name, it is a fighting knife. Hoodlams and criminals usually hide these knives under their jackets, tucked in under their arms. It was popularized in 19th century, after desolution of janissary corps and there is a theory that first versions of these knives were cut down yatağans(to carry it easier hidden). These blades reamined popular between criminals and gangsters in Turkey until early 60s. And it is still listed as an illegal weapon by Turkish criminal law.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Kubur

For your 'Ottoman' concern.

It's funny I have discussed this previously in several posts.
Basically people know that Ottoman empire was big.
But when we talk about arms and armors, they just think about Turkey and Balkans...........I'm very interested in North Africa (Morocco, Algeria,Tunisia and Egypt).

I will post more stuff to enlarge a limited narrowed vision on Balkans and Turkey.

To finish, you can find Balkans arms in Algeria and the pistols with coral inlays are not all from Algeria...
Just guys open your mind to other area of the Ottoman empire (like Hijaz for example)...

Kubur

Kuber, I am also very interested in weapons and armor from North Africa (Morocco, Algeria,Tunisia and Egypt). My point when discussing whether a particular item is from a certain part of the vast Ottoman empire is that if you are to positively state that an item is in fact "Algerian", "Balkan", "Albanian" "Egyptian" etc then there should be certain general characteristics that are repeatedly seen in other similar examples.

So far I do not see anything about the bichaq that Battara posted which shouts out as being "Algerian", but since I am not as familiar with Algerian weapons as some other forum members I would appreciate anyone who can show me what in particular would make the bichaq that Battara posted appear to be Algerian or even Balkan. To me it looks like a flat out Ottoman bichaq with not enough distinguishing characteristics to pin point a particular region of use or manufacture.