Primitive cutlass for I.D.

colin henshaw · 2nd March 2015, 01:28 PM

Thanks to Mark and Cutlass Collector for their comments on the cutlass.

I had been wondering if it could be a colonial American piece... Looking through the book "Swords and Blades of the American Revolution" by Neumann, there are some similar examples, especially no. 374.S

I know little about European or American swords, but as far as I can see, aspects that could suggest such an American Revolutionary War period origin are :-

Fairly crude manufacture
No fuller to blade
Wooden grip
No ferrules to grip
General form

On the other hand, American colonial cutlasses often have a small quillon to the knucklebow.

However, I may well be off track here, and further input and any references to aid identification, are welcome. Is it correct to say that professionally made cutlasses of the 19th century usually have sheet iron grips ?

Regards
Colin

M ELEY · 2nd March 2015, 07:16 PM

Of course you are both correct that it easily could be of the earlier (Rev War) period. If so, it might correctly be more identified as a true naval piece if used by an American sailor. Government vs. private purchase for the Americans during this period was redundant. All of the pieces would have been primitive, blacksmith-made and crude. Colin, this truly is a great piece that breathes character! I often think of crude cutlasses as 'folk art' in nature, no two being alike.

374S in Neumann's is very similar, as is 380S. I love Neumann's book, but will caution that when it was written, some of the forms might have been mis-classified by date. For instance, 377S, noted as Rev War period, is actually a documented form from the War of 1812. The Raleigh History Museum has one in their collection that is well-attributed to that later period. I've also seem many of the 'sheet guard types' such as 376S being post 1800.

colin henshaw · 3rd March 2015, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Of course you are both correct that it easily could be of the earlier (Rev War) period. If so, it might correctly be more identified as a true naval piece if used by an American sailor. Government vs. private purchase for the Americans during this period was redundant. All of the pieces would have been primitive, blacksmith-made and crude. Colin, this truly is a great piece that breathes character! I often think of crude cutlasses as 'folk art' in nature, no two being alike.

374S in Neumann's is very similar, as is 380S. I love Neumann's book, but will caution that when it was written, some of the forms might have been mis-classified by date. For instance, 377S, noted as Rev War period, is actually a documented form from the War of 1812. The Raleigh History Museum has one in their collection that is well-attributed to that later period. I've also seem many of the 'sheet guard types' such as 376S being post 1800.

Thanks Mark, for the very helpful information. Glad you like the sword. I also notice that the sheet iron guard on my example is somewhat wider at the pommel, than on the cutlasses shown in the Neumann book. I guess its impossible to be sure about exact origins without a clear provenance.

Regards.

M ELEY · 4th March 2015, 01:33 AM

Provenance is always hard when it comes to these types. When you think about it, even some of the issued naval swords, such as the old m1803 Brit, were often post-war swords used by merchantmen or shipped off to other countries entirely.

With this cutlass type, at least I think we can reasonably say that it's either british or American. This sounds redundant, but when you think about all of the other navies around at the time, that really is a narrowing of the market. I've never seen any of the other naval powers (Dutch, Russian, Spanish) with this pattern of cutlass represented.

2nd March 2015, 01:28 PM	#1
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,429	Thanks to Mark and Cutlass Collector for their comments on the cutlass. I had been wondering if it could be a colonial American piece... Looking through the book "Swords and Blades of the American Revolution" by Neumann, there are some similar examples, especially no. 374.S I know little about European or American swords, but as far as I can see, aspects that could suggest such an American Revolutionary War period origin are :- Fairly crude manufacture No fuller to blade Wooden grip No ferrules to grip General form On the other hand, American colonial cutlasses often have a small quillon to the knucklebow. However, I may well be off track here, and further input and any references to aid identification, are welcome. Is it correct to say that professionally made cutlasses of the 19th century usually have sheet iron grips ? Regards Colin

2nd March 2015, 07:16 PM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,204	Of course you are both correct that it easily could be of the earlier (Rev War) period. If so, it might correctly be more identified as a true naval piece if used by an American sailor. Government vs. private purchase for the Americans during this period was redundant. All of the pieces would have been primitive, blacksmith-made and crude. Colin, this truly is a great piece that breathes character! I often think of crude cutlasses as 'folk art' in nature, no two being alike. 374S in Neumann's is very similar, as is 380S. I love Neumann's book, but will caution that when it was written, some of the forms might have been mis-classified by date. For instance, 377S, noted as Rev War period, is actually a documented form from the War of 1812. The Raleigh History Museum has one in their collection that is well-attributed to that later period. I've also seem many of the 'sheet guard types' such as 376S being post 1800.

4th March 2015, 01:33 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,204	Provenance is always hard when it comes to these types. When you think about it, even some of the issued naval swords, such as the old m1803 Brit, were often post-war swords used by merchantmen or shipped off to other countries entirely. With this cutlass type, at least I think we can reasonably say that it's either british or American. This sounds redundant, but when you think about all of the other navies around at the time, that really is a narrowing of the market. I've never seen any of the other naval powers (Dutch, Russian, Spanish) with this pattern of cutlass represented.