An Interesting Crossbow Accident, 1517

Matchlock · 30th March 2011, 05:28 PM

Note the broken right composite horn bow arm and cord whirled up high in the air shortly before probably hitting the crossbow man's companion!

From the Emperor Maximilian I's Theuerdank, 1517.

Best,
Michael

Jim McDougall · 3rd April 2011, 01:16 AM

Thank you so much Michael for posting this fascinating perspective on the dynamics and inherent dangers experienced in combat outside the obvious threat of enemy weapons. While artwork and iconography often show the images of pitched combat, and narratives often describe strategy and results, there is little attention typically given to these kinds of situations it seems. With your lifetime of intense scrutiny in examining a literal world full of artwork reflecting military themes and weapons, it is exciting to see these views seldom experienced by most of us who know only the key works and images.

It is extremely interesting to see how combatants might have been injured or even killed by thier own weapons. With the tremendous force involved in the workings of these crossbows, it would seem that this event might have occurred far more than might be imagined. In a ridiculously lesser analogy, who can say they have not stretched a rubber band to beyond its limit of expansion, with often momentarily painful result.....just magnify by umpteens!!!

I had always thought of the dangers of firearms exploding as well as cannon due to miscalculated charges or weakened or compromised metal....but hadn't really thought of this.

All the best,
Jim

fernando · 3rd April 2011, 07:25 PM

Thank you so much Michl, for bringing us such didactic panorama, as people currently think of the crossbow as (only) being a weapon of war, often forgetting that these devices equally had a brilliant career in the hunting scenario.
This illustration once more reminds me how short sighted i am

, for it took me all this time to figure out where the broken bow arm was. Having so said, i find the panic attitude adopted by the Gentleman in the back of the shooter rather precocious, as it all indicates he won't be hit by the undesired projectile

.
On the other hand and showing how humans level of serenity is way much lower than that of (other) animals, is worthy of note to observe the bird relaxing on the tree branch, not giving a dam to the bolt having hit the tree just below its fragile parts

.
Another thing Michl ...
Have you some theory, or even certainty, on the reason for that sort of 'mechanism' depicted in the cape of the character on the right of the illustration?

.

Jim McDougall · 3rd April 2011, 11:54 PM

Good question Fernando, that standed wheel is definitely the focal point of this work.
Michael, would this work plausibly have been done by Hans Burgkmair (1473-1531), one of Maximilian I's favored artists? It seems he did a good number of varied types of art featuring religious scenes and portraits of citizens in Augsburg.
I am wondering about the possible allegorical content of this illustration, and the unusual 'action' elements. Also, would the predominant 'wheel' shown on the back of the individual in foreground possibly signify the 'Catherine Wheel'?
This was a symbolic for St. Catherine of Alexandria martyred in the 4th century and signifying the 'breaking wheel', with which the Romans tried to execute her but it broke rather than breaking her. Regardless, she was then executed by sword. In reading through heraldic explanations it is suggested that the wheel signifies the faithful who will endure great trials for Christianity.

All the best,
Jim

Matchlock · 4th April 2011, 05:19 PM

Hi Jim and 'Nando,

Of course most of these illustrations are Hans Burgkmair's work.

As to the standed wheel which Maximilian's companion is also shown to wear on the front of his coat in another of Burgkmair's engravings in the Theuerdank (attached), I cannot see any relation between this spinning wheel and St. Chatherine's wheel of torture. I would suggest the spinning wheel (Spinnrad) has to do with either the guy's profession or even his name - just like the symbols painted on shields and pavises.

Best,
Michl

Jim McDougall · 4th April 2011, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Hi Jim and 'Nando,

Of course most of these illustrations are Hans Burgkmair's work.

As to the standed wheel which Maximilian's companion is also shown to wear on the front of his coat in another of Burgkmair's engravings in the Theuerdank (attached), I cannot see any relation between this spinning wheel and St. Chatherine's wheel of torture. I would suggest the spinning wheel (Spinnrad) has to do with either the guy's profession or even his name - just like the symbols painted on shields and pavises.

Best,
Michl

Thanks very much Michael, and of course it does make perfect sense that the wheel is likely a spinning wheel as it is mounted on a stand. I was thinking of the Catherine wheel in considering possible allegorical connections. Since it does seem that Burgkmair focused a good deal on illustrating local citizens of Augsburg, perhaps this person or family was influential enough for special attention.

All the best,
Jim

Matchlock · 4th April 2011, 05:57 PM

Exactly, Jim,

We're on the same page!

Best,
Michael

Mac · 23rd February 2015, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Have you some theory, or even certainty, on the reason for that sort of 'mechanism' depicted in the cape of the character on the right of the illustration?

.

I am pretty sure that it represents the "wheel of fortune" that raises a man up and then casts him down. It's a common medieval motif, but it usually has people on the wheel, and "Fortune" herself turning the crank.

An image search for wheel of fortune medieval will bring up quite a few examples. https://www.google.com/search?tbm=is...rtune+medieval. I am new here as I write this, so I am not sure I understand the rules and etiquette of posting images that are not mine.

Mac

fernando · 23rd February 2015, 06:24 PM

Welcome to the forum Mac

Highly considerable point you got there.
Although the wheel of fortune is usually depicted with (four) characters and Lady Fortune herself sipinning the crank, as you well mention, this might well be a stylized or simplified version.
That small stand in the center would always led (me) other ways

.

Mac · 25th February 2015, 01:39 AM

Thank you, Fernando!

Yes. The lack of people on the wheel does cast a bit of doubt on my interpretation. I have a facsimile of Theuerdank with some notes in English. I will see if there is any mention of the wheel in there.

Mac

Mac · 25th February 2015, 01:49 AM

I found something online that supports the wheel of fortune interpretation.

Here is a snip from a description of the book in the British Royal Collections http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/co...719/theuerdank

Quote:

...... A key was provided at the end of the work to inform the reader of the real identity of the main characters: the knight Theuerdank (Maximilian) journeys to claim his bride Ernreich (Rich in Honour; Mary) after the death of her father Romreich (Rich in Fame; Charles), accompanied always by his faithful squire Ernhold (Steadfastly Honoured), who is depicted with the wheel of fortune on his tunic. .....

Mac

thinreadline · 16th March 2015, 10:18 AM

Though here is a punishment wheel in a very similar configuration to that shown on the tabards. This shows the execution of Jean Calas in 1762 .

30th March 2011, 05:28 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	An Interesting Crossbow Accident, 1517 Note the broken right composite horn bow arm and cord whirled up high in the air shortly before probably hitting the crossbow man's companion! From the Emperor Maximilian I's Theuerdank, 1517. Best, Michael Attached Images

3rd April 2011, 07:25 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you so much Michl, for bringing us such didactic panorama, as people currently think of the crossbow as (only) being a weapon of war, often forgetting that these devices equally had a brilliant career in the hunting scenario. This illustration once more reminds me how short sighted i am , for it took me all this time to figure out where the broken bow arm was. Having so said, i find the panic attitude adopted by the Gentleman in the back of the shooter rather precocious, as it all indicates he won't be hit by the undesired projectile . On the other hand and showing how humans level of serenity is way much lower than that of (other) animals, is worthy of note to observe the bird relaxing on the tree branch, not giving a dam to the bolt having hit the tree just below its fragile parts . Another thing Michl ... Have you some theory, or even certainty, on the reason for that sort of 'mechanism' depicted in the cape of the character on the right of the illustration? . Attached Images

4th April 2011, 05:19 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Jim and 'Nando, Of course most of these illustrations are Hans Burgkmair's work. As to the standed wheel which Maximilian's companion is also shown to wear on the front of his coat in another of Burgkmair's engravings in the Theuerdank (attached), I cannot see any relation between this spinning wheel and St. Chatherine's wheel of torture. I would suggest the spinning wheel (Spinnrad) has to do with either the guy's profession or even his name - just like the symbols painted on shields and pavises. Best, Michl Attached Images

23rd February 2015, 06:24 PM	#9
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Welcome to the forum Mac Highly considerable point you got there. Although the wheel of fortune is usually depicted with (four) characters and Lady Fortune herself sipinning the crank, as you well mention, this might well be a stylized or simplified version. That small stand in the center would always led (me) other ways . Last edited by fernando; 23rd February 2015 at 06:56 PM.

16th March 2015, 10:18 AM	#12
thinreadline Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wirral Posts: 1,204	Though here is a punishment wheel in a very similar configuration to that shown on the tabards. This shows the execution of Jean Calas in 1762 . Attached Images

3rd April 2011, 01:16 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,940	Thank you so much Michael for posting this fascinating perspective on the dynamics and inherent dangers experienced in combat outside the obvious threat of enemy weapons. While artwork and iconography often show the images of pitched combat, and narratives often describe strategy and results, there is little attention typically given to these kinds of situations it seems. With your lifetime of intense scrutiny in examining a literal world full of artwork reflecting military themes and weapons, it is exciting to see these views seldom experienced by most of us who know only the key works and images. It is extremely interesting to see how combatants might have been injured or even killed by thier own weapons. With the tremendous force involved in the workings of these crossbows, it would seem that this event might have occurred far more than might be imagined. In a ridiculously lesser analogy, who can say they have not stretched a rubber band to beyond its limit of expansion, with often momentarily painful result.....just magnify by umpteens!!! I had always thought of the dangers of firearms exploding as well as cannon due to miscalculated charges or weakened or compromised metal....but hadn't really thought of this. All the best, Jim

3rd April 2011, 11:54 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,940	Good question Fernando, that standed wheel is definitely the focal point of this work. Michael, would this work plausibly have been done by Hans Burgkmair (1473-1531), one of Maximilian I's favored artists? It seems he did a good number of varied types of art featuring religious scenes and portraits of citizens in Augsburg. I am wondering about the possible allegorical content of this illustration, and the unusual 'action' elements. Also, would the predominant 'wheel' shown on the back of the individual in foreground possibly signify the 'Catherine Wheel'? This was a symbolic for St. Catherine of Alexandria martyred in the 4th century and signifying the 'breaking wheel', with which the Romans tried to execute her but it broke rather than breaking her. Regardless, she was then executed by sword. In reading through heraldic explanations it is suggested that the wheel signifies the faithful who will endure great trials for Christianity. All the best, Jim

4th April 2011, 05:57 PM	#7
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Exactly, Jim, We're on the same page! Best, Michael

25th February 2015, 01:39 AM	#10
Mac Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Near Philly USA Posts: 4	Thank you, Fernando! Yes. The lack of people on the wheel does cast a bit of doubt on my interpretation. I have a facsimile of Theuerdank with some notes in English. I will see if there is any mention of the wheel in there. Mac