Persian mail and plate shirt.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Ibrahiim and all, I have found that museums in general do not want to be told that they are wrong, here is another example. Recently I spotted this image being posted all over the internet. It is a samurai full face mask (somen), there is no doubt about that, anyone can google "samurai somen" and come up with matching images. There are several different versions of this somen but all have the same basic description.

So I did a little detective work and found the photographer responsible for taking one of the images, he was actually very cordial, he stated that he simply copied the museums description of the image and he felt that seeing the respectable nature of the museum (The Wellcome Collection) that owns the somen that they must be right in the accuracy of the description, but he did say that if the museum changed their description that he would do the same on his images.

So I did a little more digging and found links to the images with the wrong description. (http://wellcomeimages.org/indexplus/image/M0005113.html) and (http://wellcomeimages.org/indexplus/image/M0005114.html). So I thought that this would be an easy one, I contacted the museum many months ago and sent them all of the information they would need to see that the item being described as a "European executioners mask" was in fact a samurai somen. Well the mask is still mislabeled and the museum never replied to me.

Update, after contacting the Wellcome Collection again I finally received a response.

I am writing to thank you for your e-mail of 11 September letting us know about the mis-identification of the Japanese Somen which features in our permanent exhibition “Medicine Man” (currently suspended while building work is completed).

We are very grateful to you for pointing out this mis-identification which seems to have come with the object when it was originally acquired for Henry Wellcome’s collection, but has obviously been repeated in different places at different times.

The Somen will go on display again in February next year when our permanent exhibitions re-open, and the accompanying ‘information’ will of course be corrected in accordance with the information you have kindly passed on.

With many thanks for your help, and very best wishes, James

James Peto
Senior Curator
Public Programmes
Wellcome Trust
215 Euston Rd
London NW1 2BE

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Update, after contacting the Wellcome Collection again I finally received a response.

Bravo !!!

Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[Shakethetrees]

Sometime the squeaky wheel gets the oil!

Unless someone in staff knows you or you have written books that are widely known, you could be a crackpot. If they get a lot of comments, then they will investigate.

Also, if a case is sealed for a certain time that will not open it to change a label unless there is so much commentary it becomes an embarrassment.

[russel]

I work at a museum, and I can confirm first hand that curators are reluctant to ever admit they are wrong. I have presented extensive, accurate information concerning erroneous labelling, but it always seems to fall on deaf ears. I call it "I'm the expert" syndrome.

[Kubur]

Second syndrome is
"I'm a lazy bugger"...
People don't like changes...

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by russel

I work at a museum, and I can confirm first hand that curators are reluctant to ever admit they are wrong. I have presented extensive, accurate information concerning erroneous labelling, but it always seems to fall on deaf ears. I call it "I'm the expert" syndrome.

Russel, that must be frustrating, do you have any examples you can show.

Here is an example of what can happen with one misidentified object. A photographer took some photos of objects from the Wellcome Collection a few years ago including the mask, now his photo has been reposted all over the internet with the wrong description.
https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sb...XN3x5gbxCBLW1A

[Kubur]

http://www.brooklynmuseum.org/openco...th_Dragon_Head

labelled as Ottoman axe 18th
instead of Qajar 19th

You have hundred of examples...
and it is worst in the storerooms than the exhibition rooms!

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Kubur

http://www.brooklynmuseum.org/openco...th_Dragon_Head

labelled as Ottoman axe 18th
instead of Qajar 19th

You have hundred of examples...
and it is worst in the storerooms than the exhibition rooms!

Definitely not Ottoman!!!

Battle-Axe with Dragon Head
Shared motifs and designs in the art of diverse cultures along the Silk Route provide some of the most visible evidence of cultural transmission between China and the Islamic world. Through trade, tribute, gift exchange, and the spread of religions such as Buddhism, Manichaeism, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, imagery associated with one artistic tradition was often adapted or incorporated in another cultural context. Motifs that appear across the arts of China, Central Asia, and the Islamic world include fantastical animals such as dragons and phoenixes; cloud bands and cloud collar motifs; and flowers such as lotuses and peonies. Yet the meanings linked to these motifs often did not transfer from one context to the next. Similar imagery could exist simultaneously in several regions while signifying different things.

The dragon represents one of the enduring motifs of Chinese art; it has acquired a range of auspicious meanings over time, symbolizing creation, life-giving rain, and the benevolent power of the emperor.

Dragons were also familiar to Iranian, Anatolian, Central Asian, and Indian cultures and were represented as peaceful and benevolent or terrifying and violent depending on Manichaean, Soghdian, Khotanese, or Armenian mythology. The dragon decorating the back of an Ottoman axe might have served as a fear-inducing and simultaneously protective image.

Medium: Steel
Dates: 17th-18th century
Period: Ottoman dynasty
Dimensions: 31 in. (78.7 cm) Other (Blade): 8 1/2 in. (21.6 cm) (show scale)
Collections:Arts of the Islamic World
Museum Location: This item is not on view
Accession Number: 42.245.5
Credit Line: Gift of Percy C. Madeira, Jr.
Rights Statement: Creative Commons-BY
Caption: Battle-Axe with Dragon Head, 17th-18th century. Steel, 31 in. (78.7 cm).