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Old 23rd November 2014, 12:11 PM   #1
kronckew
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Default 19c. silver inlayed Indian axe for comment

it's coming to stay with me. vendor esst. it from 1850-1899.

(not my arm, by the way )
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Old 26th November 2014, 09:44 PM   #2
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it arrived today, heavy at 680 grams (1.5 lb.), haft length 62 cm long by 2 cm. diameter.. blade is 20 cm. top point to bottom one. spike is 10 cm. blade and spike are sharp. nice patina. silver koftgari a bit worn in places. nice.
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Old 27th November 2014, 02:50 PM   #3
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IT LOOKS LIKE A NICE EXAMPLE OF THE FORM. ITS NOT MY FIELD SO ABOUT ALL I CAN SAY IS INDO-PERSIAN AX DOES SHOW SOME PATINA TO THE SHAFT AND THE BLADE INLAY ABOUT NORMAL FOR THESE. YOU DON'T SEE AS MANY WITH THIS SHAPE OF BACK SPIKE AS THE DOUBLE BALDED OR HAMMER BACK FORMS SEEM TO BE MORE PREVALENT . PERHAPS A FORUM MEMBER WITH MORE KNOWLEDGE CAN PIN IT DOWN AS TO WHERE AND WHEN IT WAS MADE. GOOD LUCK
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Old 30th November 2014, 09:00 AM   #4
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handling it i wonder if there may have once been some sort of cord, leather, or wire wrapping on the haft to improve the grip, which has come off, or is it just that my hands are bigger than theirs?
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Old 30th November 2014, 03:44 PM   #5
Jens Nordlunde
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Yes, most but not all Indians have a finer bone structure that the Europeans, you only need to take a tulwar or a katar in your hand to realise this.
Nice axe by the way :-).
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Old 2nd December 2014, 05:28 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
handling it i wonder if there may have once been some sort of cord, leather, or wire wrapping on the haft to improve the grip, which has come off, or is it just that my hands are bigger than theirs?


Actually the shaft of Indian weapons can be of a much smaller diameter than yours, some are almost imposible to grip properly. I seems to me that some must have been wrapped with leather etc but very little evidence of this exists. I know of one example which still shows a leather cover.
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Old 2nd December 2014, 10:30 AM   #7
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Small handed people metal wrap at the bottom of the haft is the grip ,the wood haft would have been most likely covered in a velvet like cloth.Nice axe you have.Pictured similar example all steel
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Old 3rd December 2014, 12:08 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward F
Small handed people metal wrap at the bottom of the haft is the grip ,the wood haft would have been most likely covered in a velvet like cloth.Nice axe you have.Pictured similar example all steel


Edward, these are very similar to each other, any idea were the one you posted came from, and do you have any more pictures of the other weapons shown in the backround, it looks like there is a war hammer on the upper right side. I have included an Indian war hammer that looks very similar in design, all of these are possibly from the same region.
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Old 3rd December 2014, 10:25 PM   #9
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estcrh I cant be sure where my axe is from it could be a sudan copy of indo Persian? Posted another axe that is similar in construction to Krockew axe.Posted the two war hammers.
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Old 11th December 2014, 12:11 PM   #10
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
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Default Jewish Axes of the Persian Sufi/ Dervish sect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
it's coming to stay with me. vendor esst. it from 1850-1899.

(not my arm, by the way )



Salaams kronckew, Please have a look at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...=jewish+dervish

These axes were also carried about by wandering Dervish Sufi in and before the 1920s in Persia. Amazingly they are shown in a reference at http://kavvanah.wordpress.com/2013/...dervishes-1922/ pictured with Jewish members of that group amalgamating Jewish and Muslim concepts into their traditions. The axe in this case said to have been carried as a defensive weapon in the right hand to ward off wild animals etc... and as part of their regalia..
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Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
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Old 12th December 2014, 02:30 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

These axes were also carried about by wandering Dervish Sufi in and before the 1920s in Persia. Amazingly they are shown in a reference at http://kavvanah.wordpress.com/2013/...dervishes-1922/ pictured with Jewish members of that group amalgamating Jewish and Muslim concepts into their traditions. The axe in this case said to have been carried as a defensive weapon in the right hand to ward off wild animals etc... and as part of their regalia..
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim, I have not seen the particular type of axe that Kronckew and Edward posted being carried by Dervishes. I have seen that same form coming from Sudan of all places. Two photos of Sudanese axes. Photo of two Persian Jewish Dervishes with axes.
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Old 12th December 2014, 05:51 AM   #12
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very interesting - especially the 1st one,looks much like my naked one. the area just below the head and just above the butt have a covering - leather? the central haft section looks like it has yet another thin cover of some type. the 2nd seems to have a much thicker set of clothes. mine has no calligraphy, the decorative motif is purely flora.
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Old 12th December 2014, 06:44 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
very interesting - especially the 1st one,looks much like my naked one. the area just below the head and just above the butt have a covering - leather? the central haft section looks like it has yet another thin cover of some type. the 2nd seems to have a much thicker set of clothes. mine has no calligraphy, the decorative motif is purely flora.

The first one is described as being "reptile" skin, the second as crocodile. This is fairly common for Sudanese axes.

Here is one more Sudanese axe of the same type. Now if this is actually an Indian style axe how is it that the Sudanese came to use the same style? These axe could have been introduced in the early 1880s when Indian troops in the service of England helped the Khedive of Egypt regain control of Egypt after a military coup.

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The 20th Punjab Infantry in Egypt, Circa 1882, tired of the corruption of the Khedive of Egypt's regime, the Egyptian Army rose under Urabi Pasha. Unfortunately the Suez Canal ran through his country, the British sent an army to restore the old regime. On 13 Sept1882, an Anglo-Indian force crushed the Egyptian Army at the battle of Tel-el-Kebir. The 20th Punjab formed the left forward battalion of the Indian Army contingent's attack which the Egyptians proved incapable of stopping.
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Old 13th December 2014, 05:22 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward F
estcrh I cant be sure where my axe is from it could be a sudan copy of indo Persian? Posted another axe that is similar in construction to Krockew axe.Posted the two war hammers.

Edward, your axe does not look overtly Sudanese to me, your war hammers are interesting, very similar on construction but with very different heads, they would seem to be constricted in the same region but I have seen the one with a spike head on the right being described as Indian and the one on the left with a hammer being described as Ottoman / Persian. The last axe you posted is unusual as well, I do not think I have seen that exact type, possibly Persian, maybe some other forum member has another opinion.
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