My first Kerises

A. G. Maisey · 18th November 2014, 01:00 AM

Yeah, that out of stain keris could be Lombok, and I considered adding this possibility, but then I had another look at that wimpy little kembang kacang, and I decided that I'd opt for Madura. Madura has been a supplier of keris to lots of places for a long time. I have a 19th century Brunei keris that gives every indication of being Madura work.

I wasn't targeting you David, with my remarks on fit, I read the fit comment, but as is usual with me, I'm nearly always in too much of a hurry to read who wrote what, I just scan down and then dash off a comment, often I don't know who I'm commenting on --- a comment generates my response, but the person who comments doesn't always register.

Yes again, the wood is possibly older than the pendok, but this means nothing, because parts get changed constantly. Quality of workmanship is not necessarily a good indicator of age of anything, very often the very best quality work is done right now --- as well as the lousiest work.

The silver dress is probably 1980's forward. Its good work, and the early full silver stuff from Bali was pretty primitive. Right now it seems to have slipped back in quality, but during the 1980's it was very good. I've had a few of these, some I thought were probably older, some I knew were 1980's.But is the age important? To me its not. Its not even relevant. This is art. If you want first quality Bali bling that's old you need to be looking at royal keris, and old Bali royal keris mean very, very big dollars, and there are very, very few of them.

If you're happy with royal quality of yesteryear, but made some time since about 1960 you're looking at something that even a bloke who stacks supermarket shelves can afford --- yeah, he'll have to cut the after work drinks for a while, but he can get it if he wants it.

The best Bali silver work that has ever been done is done right now. But it costs.
Same with quality wood carving. The best ever is done right now, but if you want to own the best you're looking at prices in Bali that approximate London and New York gallery prices. The best Bali work has been out of my reach for more than 25 years now. Don't know who buys it, but I can't afford it.

What this whole discussion on age and additions, alterations, modifications etc, etc, etc comes down to is this:-

If we want an old totally original keris in good condition, there is only one way to get hold of that, you trawl the general antique dealers and general auctions in Europe and look for something that came to Europe +100 years ago, and then pay the expected price.

For some time now Javanese finders have been doing exactly this and taking the best of these pieces back to sell on the Javanese market. Do we learn anything from this?

If something has come out of SE Asia any time since WWII you can bet that it has been performing a social function during its entire life in its home country, and that means that as the situation of the owner has changed, so has the dress on his keris.

Keris are items of dress:- nobody goes out in formal dress with a keris that does not suit his position. Scabbards, and to a lesser extent hilts get changed all the time --- these changes do not necessarily mean that brand new dress is created for the keris, if the wrongko can be improved with a better quality used wrongko or hilt, this will be done.

Spunjer · 18th November 2014, 03:04 PM

Alan, thank you so much for imparting this wisdom. it's so amazing how these weapons is so deeply intertwined with the culture, so in essence these artifacts are the "books" from the past.
as far as the kerises, thank you for the assessment! as i have mentioned to David, i'm still trying to get the "eye" on what differentiate a great blade from a good blade. the dress is not so hard to discern.
i'm always partial to silver and ivory, reason why i got attached to the two kerises. as far as the third one, i was enamored by the carving on the pendok. with all three, i have a varied example on wrangkas.

A. G. Maisey · 18th November 2014, 10:02 PM

Ron, the keris is a multi facetted cultural artifact, and what it is depends upon the period against which it is being considered, and the mind-set of the person doing the considering.

What is true for one person in one place may not be true for another person in a different place, or a different time.

Some present day Javanese people will describe the keris as a "prayer in steel". I do not know what thoughts have given rise to this idea, but if we examine the origins of the Modern Keris, during the Majapahit Period, this does seem to me to be a particularly apt description.

Probably the Javanese people who have coined this phrase did not have in mind the same things that I had in mind when I wrote "Interpretation", but the feelings involved may well be similar.

As to the differences between a great blade, and an ordinary blade, well, that is something that most people never really discover.

Technically it is probably not all that difficult to lay out the parameters for appraisal, but the idea of "great" requires that some indefinable extra comes into play, and that is the difficult part. It is perhaps a bit like the effect that a "great" painting or sculpture has upon us, something that is felt, and probably defies analysis.

18th November 2014, 01:00 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Yeah, that out of stain keris could be Lombok, and I considered adding this possibility, but then I had another look at that wimpy little kembang kacang, and I decided that I'd opt for Madura. Madura has been a supplier of keris to lots of places for a long time. I have a 19th century Brunei keris that gives every indication of being Madura work. I wasn't targeting you David, with my remarks on fit, I read the fit comment, but as is usual with me, I'm nearly always in too much of a hurry to read who wrote what, I just scan down and then dash off a comment, often I don't know who I'm commenting on --- a comment generates my response, but the person who comments doesn't always register. Yes again, the wood is possibly older than the pendok, but this means nothing, because parts get changed constantly. Quality of workmanship is not necessarily a good indicator of age of anything, very often the very best quality work is done right now --- as well as the lousiest work. The silver dress is probably 1980's forward. Its good work, and the early full silver stuff from Bali was pretty primitive. Right now it seems to have slipped back in quality, but during the 1980's it was very good. I've had a few of these, some I thought were probably older, some I knew were 1980's.But is the age important? To me its not. Its not even relevant. This is art. If you want first quality Bali bling that's old you need to be looking at royal keris, and old Bali royal keris mean very, very big dollars, and there are very, very few of them. If you're happy with royal quality of yesteryear, but made some time since about 1960 you're looking at something that even a bloke who stacks supermarket shelves can afford --- yeah, he'll have to cut the after work drinks for a while, but he can get it if he wants it. The best Bali silver work that has ever been done is done right now. But it costs. Same with quality wood carving. The best ever is done right now, but if you want to own the best you're looking at prices in Bali that approximate London and New York gallery prices. The best Bali work has been out of my reach for more than 25 years now. Don't know who buys it, but I can't afford it. What this whole discussion on age and additions, alterations, modifications etc, etc, etc comes down to is this:- If we want an old totally original keris in good condition, there is only one way to get hold of that, you trawl the general antique dealers and general auctions in Europe and look for something that came to Europe +100 years ago, and then pay the expected price. For some time now Javanese finders have been doing exactly this and taking the best of these pieces back to sell on the Javanese market. Do we learn anything from this? If something has come out of SE Asia any time since WWII you can bet that it has been performing a social function during its entire life in its home country, and that means that as the situation of the owner has changed, so has the dress on his keris. Keris are items of dress:- nobody goes out in formal dress with a keris that does not suit his position. Scabbards, and to a lesser extent hilts get changed all the time --- these changes do not necessarily mean that brand new dress is created for the keris, if the wrongko can be improved with a better quality used wrongko or hilt, this will be done.

18th November 2014, 03:04 PM	#2
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	Alan, thank you so much for imparting this wisdom. it's so amazing how these weapons is so deeply intertwined with the culture, so in essence these artifacts are the "books" from the past. as far as the kerises, thank you for the assessment! as i have mentioned to David, i'm still trying to get the "eye" on what differentiate a great blade from a good blade. the dress is not so hard to discern. i'm always partial to silver and ivory, reason why i got attached to the two kerises. as far as the third one, i was enamored by the carving on the pendok. with all three, i have a varied example on wrangkas.

18th November 2014, 10:02 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Ron, the keris is a multi facetted cultural artifact, and what it is depends upon the period against which it is being considered, and the mind-set of the person doing the considering. What is true for one person in one place may not be true for another person in a different place, or a different time. Some present day Javanese people will describe the keris as a "prayer in steel". I do not know what thoughts have given rise to this idea, but if we examine the origins of the Modern Keris, during the Majapahit Period, this does seem to me to be a particularly apt description. Probably the Javanese people who have coined this phrase did not have in mind the same things that I had in mind when I wrote "Interpretation", but the feelings involved may well be similar. As to the differences between a great blade, and an ordinary blade, well, that is something that most people never really discover. Technically it is probably not all that difficult to lay out the parameters for appraisal, but the idea of "great" requires that some indefinable extra comes into play, and that is the difficult part. It is perhaps a bit like the effect that a "great" painting or sculpture has upon us, something that is felt, and probably defies analysis.