hmong knife from French Guiana

kronckew · 6th November 2014, 06:32 AM

'hmong' is the name of a tribe of mountain people in northern thailand/laos/vietnam, sometimes referred to as montagnards, they were staunch allies of the USA in the vietnam war, many were repatriated to the USA and canada afterwards, tho many were left behind. they were fond of using crossbows.

'enep' is a thai word meaning 'knife'.

the hmong favour an enep style knife like the ones discussed here.

the vendor of the ones i've ordered also has one similar to yours on his site. photo attached below.

the other photo shows a high status hmong chieftan's knife made by an acquaintance in vietnam, along with the original he copied. sadly not for sale.

if you go to youtube & search 'hmong knife', there are a number of interesting videos.

Robert · 6th November 2014, 07:19 AM

Hello Kronckew and thank you very much for clearing that up for me. Do you have any idea of the age of my knife? One of the examples you show has a rattan sheath like mine (though not quite as elaborate) is this normal for one of these or was it just a replacement for a wooden one like most of the others shown here have?

Best,
Robert

kronckew · 6th November 2014, 09:47 AM

i think the scabbard depends on the available local materials. i suspect the woven ones are more thai. most of the locally made ones i've seen were wood. the original fancy one above was wood, and the smith faithfully reproduced the horn handle, then made a horn scabbard for it.

as these were made for ages, and are still made much the same way, and are meant to be and are used hard, i would not hazard a guess at age. i suspect older ones would have been resharpened so many times they'd be rather thinner in profile, unless of course some foreign collector like us obtained it a long time ago & put it up nicely oiled and unused. so it could be anywhere from a few years old to a couple centuries.

Robert · 6th November 2014, 08:02 PM

And again, thank you very much for the information on this Kronckew. Unlike a few who only want their items to be of great age I just want a general idea of age, be it the last century or last week.

I noticed that in the photo (that you pointed out) that what I take to be the original chieftain's knife has a wooden sheath while the copy has one made from horn. Did older fancier ones like this originally have scabbards made from horn or was this just a case of artistic licence being taken by your friend? Either way it is a beautiful piece.

Best,
Robert

P.S.
I have changed the photos that I posted earlier to ones of a better quality.

kronckew · 7th November 2014, 07:56 AM

i think it was artistic license. we're both frequenters of a khukuri related forum, and around the time he made the knife, they were supplying some decorated khuks with brass bound horn scabbards. in fact they liked his knife so much they made a number of duplicates in nepal. they still pop up occasionally & i may at some point custom order one. i would however prefer a wood scabbard myself.

p.s. - the photos do seem to show a fair bit of age patina on the wood. may want to add a few decades to the lower age limit.

blue lander · 19th December 2014, 06:36 PM

I finally took this knife outside and put it through the same "tests" I'd put a khukri/parang/golok through. Namely, clearing brush, chopping off branches, and batoning through firewood. What I found is that its quite well balanced so you can effortlessly slice through brush, and its sharp enough to lop off branches as thick as your thumb with the flick of your wrist. If you swing it at a tough old piece of wood it cuts surprisingly deep, but it binds in the wood and is difficult to pull the blade back out. I wouldn't want to try to cut a tree down with it. I also carved a spoon out of a branch with it. Because the knife is very balanced and the edge is sharp all the way to the hilt, you can do intricate work with little fatigue.

It easily batoned through firewood but I noticed a few flat spots in the edge where it hit knots and one small chip. The edge is just too thin and hard for that kind of abuse. If you were swinging it around carelessly and hit a rock or something I have no doubt the edge would chip badly.

Where it really shined is in the kitchen. Held from the hilt its very effective slicing through large pieces of meat. Grabbed from the spine of the blade like a Chinese butcher knife, the belly towards the tip makes an excellent paring knife. Even stuff like onions and potatoes that don't like thick blades were easy to slice as thin as you need them.

Judging from videos I've seen on YouTube, the hmong knive is primarily used today as an "all-in-one" kitchen knife, and that's really what it is: A kitchen/butcher/animal processing knife that can also be used for "utility work" like clearing brush and whatnot. It is not a khukri-like knife that can do stuff you'd usually use a hatchet or axe for. The edge is too thin and brittle. It's an all-in-one knife that could do anything an isolated villager might need it to, who also has access to a proper axe.

It isn't something you could wander into the woods and build a log cabin with, though. Besides the delicate edge, the lack of a guard means you'd have to be very careful. Since the edge and the belly start right at the bolster,if your finger slipped onto the blade you'd probably be cut to the bone. Other Hmong knives I've seen have a small circular guard but mine doesn't.

6th November 2014, 06:32 AM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,216	'hmong' is the name of a tribe of mountain people in northern thailand/laos/vietnam, sometimes referred to as montagnards, they were staunch allies of the USA in the vietnam war, many were repatriated to the USA and canada afterwards, tho many were left behind. they were fond of using crossbows. 'enep' is a thai word meaning 'knife'. the hmong favour an enep style knife like the ones discussed here. the vendor of the ones i've ordered also has one similar to yours on his site. photo attached below. the other photo shows a high status hmong chieftan's knife made by an acquaintance in vietnam, along with the original he copied. sadly not for sale. if you go to youtube & search 'hmong knife', there are a number of interesting videos. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 6th November 2014 at 07:03 AM.

6th November 2014, 08:02 PM	#4
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	And again, thank you very much for the information on this Kronckew. Unlike a few who only want their items to be of great age I just want a general idea of age, be it the last century or last week. I noticed that in the photo (that you pointed out) that what I take to be the original chieftain's knife has a wooden sheath while the copy has one made from horn. Did older fancier ones like this originally have scabbards made from horn or was this just a case of artistic licence being taken by your friend? Either way it is a beautiful piece. Best, Robert P.S. I have changed the photos that I posted earlier to ones of a better quality. Last edited by Robert; 6th November 2014 at 09:30 PM.

6th November 2014, 07:19 AM	#2
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Kronckew and thank you very much for clearing that up for me. Do you have any idea of the age of my knife? One of the examples you show has a rattan sheath like mine (though not quite as elaborate) is this normal for one of these or was it just a replacement for a wooden one like most of the others shown here have? Best, Robert

6th November 2014, 09:47 AM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,216	i think the scabbard depends on the available local materials. i suspect the woven ones are more thai. most of the locally made ones i've seen were wood. the original fancy one above was wood, and the smith faithfully reproduced the horn handle, then made a horn scabbard for it. as these were made for ages, and are still made much the same way, and are meant to be and are used hard, i would not hazard a guess at age. i suspect older ones would have been resharpened so many times they'd be rather thinner in profile, unless of course some foreign collector like us obtained it a long time ago & put it up nicely oiled and unused. so it could be anywhere from a few years old to a couple centuries.

7th November 2014, 07:56 AM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,216	i think it was artistic license. we're both frequenters of a khukuri related forum, and around the time he made the knife, they were supplying some decorated khuks with brass bound horn scabbards. in fact they liked his knife so much they made a number of duplicates in nepal. they still pop up occasionally & i may at some point custom order one. i would however prefer a wood scabbard myself. p.s. - the photos do seem to show a fair bit of age patina on the wood. may want to add a few decades to the lower age limit.

19th December 2014, 06:36 PM	#6
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	I finally took this knife outside and put it through the same "tests" I'd put a khukri/parang/golok through. Namely, clearing brush, chopping off branches, and batoning through firewood. What I found is that its quite well balanced so you can effortlessly slice through brush, and its sharp enough to lop off branches as thick as your thumb with the flick of your wrist. If you swing it at a tough old piece of wood it cuts surprisingly deep, but it binds in the wood and is difficult to pull the blade back out. I wouldn't want to try to cut a tree down with it. I also carved a spoon out of a branch with it. Because the knife is very balanced and the edge is sharp all the way to the hilt, you can do intricate work with little fatigue. It easily batoned through firewood but I noticed a few flat spots in the edge where it hit knots and one small chip. The edge is just too thin and hard for that kind of abuse. If you were swinging it around carelessly and hit a rock or something I have no doubt the edge would chip badly. Where it really shined is in the kitchen. Held from the hilt its very effective slicing through large pieces of meat. Grabbed from the spine of the blade like a Chinese butcher knife, the belly towards the tip makes an excellent paring knife. Even stuff like onions and potatoes that don't like thick blades were easy to slice as thin as you need them. Judging from videos I've seen on YouTube, the hmong knive is primarily used today as an "all-in-one" kitchen knife, and that's really what it is: A kitchen/butcher/animal processing knife that can also be used for "utility work" like clearing brush and whatnot. It is not a khukri-like knife that can do stuff you'd usually use a hatchet or axe for. The edge is too thin and brittle. It's an all-in-one knife that could do anything an isolated villager might need it to, who also has access to a proper axe. It isn't something you could wander into the woods and build a log cabin with, though. Besides the delicate edge, the lack of a guard means you'd have to be very careful. Since the edge and the belly start right at the bolster,if your finger slipped onto the blade you'd probably be cut to the bone. Other Hmong knives I've seen have a small circular guard but mine doesn't.