Please help me identify this Keris.

A. G. Maisey · 5th November 2014, 11:53 AM

No Jean, from what I can see in the picture, that is a Javanese blade, possibly Pajajaran, possibly Madura sepuh, maybe something else but I'd need it in hand to be certain of anything.

It is not at all unusual to find Javanese and Madurese blades in Balinese dress, and for that matter, Balinese blades in Central Jawa dress. The Balinese were often employed as mercenaries and palace guards, as were the Madurese.

And that's only the genuine stuff I'm talking about.

In recent years, say the last 20 or 30 years, dealers have put low quality old Javanese blades into Balinese dress, added a bit of bling with fancy hilts, and marketed as genuine Balinese.

I guess we could consider this as payback, because in the previous 20 or so years Javanese dealers were going to Bali, buying up Balinese good quality blades, taking them back to Jawa, working them over to appear Javanese, dressing in old Jawa dress and selling as genuine Javanese.

Why?

Because at that time Bali blades were worth next to nothing, but there was a good market for quality Jawa keris.

I've seen all this up close and personal.

Then of course we have all the other people, dealers, collectors & etc who mix and match whatever is to hand, and have done so for a very long time.

Jean · 5th November 2014, 01:07 PM

Thank you Alan and it confirms my impression that this is a different case from Scott's blade.
Regards

asomotif · 5th November 2014, 10:15 PM

Hello Scott,

Nice old bali keris. (sorry for not being original in my opinion

)
Your father made a good choice in 1974.

Can you make a picture of the other side (front side) of the scabbard ?

A bit of wood oil or bees wax would indeed be nice for the wood.

Ps, welcome

Best regards,
Willem

Rick · 5th November 2014, 10:29 PM

Any ideas about the mottled appearance of the blade ?

A. G. Maisey · 5th November 2014, 10:52 PM

On Jean's keris, Rick?

On a keris like this it is probably the result of the mix of ferric materials that went into it:- some irons (notably high phosphorus irons) come up paler than other irons.

It can also be just simple abrasion, but on an old keris like Jean's my first guess would be the variation in ferric material.

Rick · 6th November 2014, 12:15 AM

Sorry, I meant the OP's keris; instead of a uniform black it appears blotchy .
I should have been more specific .

A. G. Maisey · 6th November 2014, 03:07 AM

Don't know Rick.

It could be abrasion, maybe from cleaning, or it could be the stain going off --- an old stain will sometimes fade over time, and this has been stored for 40 years.

6th November 2014, 12:15 AM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,365	Sorry, I meant the OP's keris; instead of a uniform black it appears blotchy . I should have been more specific . Attached Images

5th November 2014, 11:53 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	No Jean, from what I can see in the picture, that is a Javanese blade, possibly Pajajaran, possibly Madura sepuh, maybe something else but I'd need it in hand to be certain of anything. It is not at all unusual to find Javanese and Madurese blades in Balinese dress, and for that matter, Balinese blades in Central Jawa dress. The Balinese were often employed as mercenaries and palace guards, as were the Madurese. And that's only the genuine stuff I'm talking about. In recent years, say the last 20 or 30 years, dealers have put low quality old Javanese blades into Balinese dress, added a bit of bling with fancy hilts, and marketed as genuine Balinese. I guess we could consider this as payback, because in the previous 20 or so years Javanese dealers were going to Bali, buying up Balinese good quality blades, taking them back to Jawa, working them over to appear Javanese, dressing in old Jawa dress and selling as genuine Javanese. Why? Because at that time Bali blades were worth next to nothing, but there was a good market for quality Jawa keris. I've seen all this up close and personal. Then of course we have all the other people, dealers, collectors & etc who mix and match whatever is to hand, and have done so for a very long time.

5th November 2014, 01:07 PM	#2
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Thank you Alan and it confirms my impression that this is a different case from Scott's blade. Regards

5th November 2014, 10:15 PM	#3
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,235	Hello Scott, Nice old bali keris. (sorry for not being original in my opinion ) Your father made a good choice in 1974. Can you make a picture of the other side (front side) of the scabbard ? A bit of wood oil or bees wax would indeed be nice for the wood. Ps, welcome Best regards, Willem

5th November 2014, 10:29 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,365	Any ideas about the mottled appearance of the blade ?

5th November 2014, 10:52 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	On Jean's keris, Rick? On a keris like this it is probably the result of the mix of ferric materials that went into it:- some irons (notably high phosphorus irons) come up paler than other irons. It can also be just simple abrasion, but on an old keris like Jean's my first guess would be the variation in ferric material.

6th November 2014, 03:07 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Don't know Rick. It could be abrasion, maybe from cleaning, or it could be the stain going off --- an old stain will sometimes fade over time, and this has been stored for 40 years.