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Old 21st October 2014, 11:08 PM   #1
Kubur
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Default Omani khanjar

Hi Guys
And what about this Omani khanjar, old or not?
I have another question: what is the material used for the hilt, horn?
Cow, giraffe or troll?
Thanks
Kubur
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Old 23rd October 2014, 02:05 PM   #2
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I think my question was really boring...
even for the Khanjars lovers...
Kubur
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Old 23rd October 2014, 04:01 PM   #3
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The grip is cowhorn, Kubur.
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Old 24th October 2014, 07:06 AM   #4
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If there is a date on the coin it might assist with the age of the whole piece....but then again it may not. Is the coin Omani, and is it the only coin on the belt?
Stu
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Old 26th October 2014, 11:14 AM   #5
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubur
Hi Guys
And what about this Omani khanjar, old or not?
I have another question: what is the material used for the hilt, horn?
Cow, giraffe or troll?
Thanks
Kubur



Salaams Kubur As noted the hilt is off a cow. Actually I rather like this khanjar ... It will clean up very well... The belt section is original to the item I think... at least the work is similar and looks to be Baatinah style. The coin being Saudia...see http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...CF3&FORM=IQFRBA for references to this coin style. It is always difficult to imagine the original Khanjar as so many parts can be changed... but anyway... it would be nice to view this one after a full clean up...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
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Old 26th October 2014, 07:09 PM   #6
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Default another question on Omani khanjar

Dear All,

Thank you for your answers.
I'm still learning about Omani khanjar and Arabian jambiya in general...
I took me a while to understand all the styles of koummiya and I try to do the same with khanjar now...to avoid mistakes...
I have one question about this one. It looks like beginning of 20th c.
Is it?

Regards,
Kubur
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Old 27th October 2014, 02:53 PM   #7
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A last word, for the one that I showed in this thread

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19163

I don't agree with you Ibrahiim.
It is not a bad Indian copy, believe me I had it in hands.
It is clearly 1970ties, but of a really good quality.
I can see a lot of bad and recent copies on ebay and on line, nothing to do with this one...
Now I agree that it is not "an ethnographic object"...

Kubur
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Old 27th October 2014, 06:10 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubur
Dear All,

Thank you for your answers.
I'm still learning about Omani khanjar and Arabian jambiya in general...
I took me a while to understand all the styles of koummiya and I try to do the same with khanjar now...to avoid mistakes...
I have one question about this one. It looks like beginning of 20th c.
Is it?

Regards,
Kubur



Salaams Kubur. Wrong end of the right century ... Its about around the 1990 form.. so a 20 to 30 year old I would say..What I find interesting is the simple play with geometry on the buttons ...in this case the geometric figure 5. Illustrating a religious configuration often associated with the hand of Fatima..sometimes seen in five finger form.. though in Oman nearly always geometrically drawn. Here the Khanjar is of the Baatinah Coast style with a lot of stitching below the belt whereas in other styles including the interior and UAE styles there is a lot of leather showing there...The hilt is interesting also..since it shows a lot of pins used in the overall pattern. See my thread on Omani Khanjars.

On the subject of the khanjar with which you disagree.. That is always your choice... I will just tell you what I know...having handled these for several decades (literally thousands of them) and if I thought it deserved a better write up .. I would give you it. It doesn't.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi : 27th October 2014 at 06:20 PM. Reason: s
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Old 27th October 2014, 07:32 PM   #9
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Salaam Ibrahiim,

Thank you very much for your comments that I value a lot.
Finaly I followed all your comments and bought another one, for sure Omani.
I will post the photos soon.
And this one, I'm sure that's an old one!!!
You will see...

Best wishes,
Kubur
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Old 28th October 2014, 12:48 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubur
A last word, for the one that I showed in this thread

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19163

I don't agree with you Ibrahiim.
It is not a bad Indian copy, believe me I had it in hands.
It is clearly 1970ties, but of a really good quality.
I can see a lot of bad and recent copies on ebay and on line, nothing to do with this one...
Now I agree that it is not "an ethnographic object"...

Kubur

I have to agree with Ibrahiim here....not in relation to the Indian origin, but the quality. The silver decoration on the hilt is obviously thin with a pressed decoration rather than engraved. I would also label this TOURIST....sorry Kubur
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Old 28th October 2014, 08:56 AM   #11
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Taking into account that current jambias/khanjars are mass produced and serve as a mundane part of a daily male attire, what difference does it make?
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Old 28th October 2014, 01:05 PM   #12
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double post

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Old 28th October 2014, 01:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ariel
Taking into account that current jambias/khanjars are mass produced and serve as a mundane part of a daily male attire, what difference does it make?


Thats not the case. Basically there is 3 levels of Omani khanjar production. The third and lowest quality ones are items produced by Bengali workers, these are items that are mass produced and generally has very little silver in it. The 2nd level of quality is items made by professional Pakistani and Indian workers who make items that I find equal to the first level.. which is Omani made items. The 2nd and 1st level are both quality items that arent made for mundane daily use, rather made for wearing during special occasions. Keep in mind that wearing the khanjar daily is no longer a practice in Oman, atleast not in the areas I have visited.
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Old 28th October 2014, 02:25 PM   #14
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Thank you Ariel!
I will put mine in the second level of al-Nakas definition...
As it looks quite good in hands.
Nevertheless I was so desperate that I got another one.
I don't think that this one is a bad one...
:-)
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Old 28th October 2014, 03:42 PM   #15
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Is that one Saudi?
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Old 28th October 2014, 10:04 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubur
Thank you Ariel!
I will put mine in the second level of al-Nakas definition...
As it looks quite good in hands.
Nevertheless I was so desperate that I got another one.
I don't think that this one is a bad one...
:-)
Kubur


Sadly it isnt. Its the lower end of quality. I saw plenty of them in Oman and Kuwait, heaviness and solid feel doesnt mean good quality really. When you get to handle the finer examples, you'll know what were talking about :-)
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Old 28th October 2014, 10:05 PM   #17
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The last one is Saudi yes. Made in southern KSA, maker is probably alDojani.
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Old 29th October 2014, 05:39 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.alnakkas
The last one is Saudi yes. Made in southern KSA, maker is probably alDojani.

I note that there is some Arabic script on the toe. Perhaps with a clearer pic a translation might be forthcoming...............
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Old 29th October 2014, 11:42 AM   #19
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good observation Stu. I hope Kubur sends clearer photos of the inscription, but what I can see now it says "shughl Abdulaziz alDojani" (work of AbdulAziz alDojani) but need better photos to be precise.
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Old 29th October 2014, 02:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubur
Thank you Ariel!
I will put mine in the second level of al-Nakas definition...
As it looks quite good in hands.
Nevertheless I was so desperate that I got another one.
I don't think that this one is a bad one...
:-)
Kubur



Salaams Kubur, So you have it correctly from fellow forum members that this is not an Omani Khanjar. There are a number of tell tale give aways shown here not least the very obvious Hilt form. Note that the scabbard compared to Omani style has quite an extra degree of turn typical of those from Saudia. See also the half loop decoration also typical just above the belt structure. UUUUUUU and lastly the inscription behind the crown. In addition there are two loops on the reverse near the top of the scabbard that are used to tie it to the broad belt ~not seen in Omani styles. I have this style as typical to the Asir region; previously Yemen.. which in the 1920s became part of KSA.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi : 29th October 2014 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 29th October 2014, 04:10 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ariel
Taking into account that current jambias/khanjars are mass produced and serve as a mundane part of a daily male attire, what difference does it make?


Salaams Ariel, No they aren't and no they don't and for the difference it makes...read on..

There are still about 10 top class artisans in Oman making traditional Khanjars and belts. Actually as in the past there are specialists making various parts of this item and really probably only a few masters who can make the entire weapon..

This is far from mundane item and you surprise me with that comment but perhaps you have missed the point...

In Oman it has to be the most photographed and admired ethnographic and historical item ever! It is totally unique. It is the badge of office of the head of the Omani family and worn by commoner and royalty alike. This represents living, breathing, ethnographic arms at their very best...

How can that be mundane?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
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Old 29th October 2014, 05:47 PM   #22
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Normally I collect only 19th century objects, so I'm a little bit disappointed.
But I know that you are ALL right...And I accept all these comments.
Anyway, at least, the last khanjar is an ethnographic object!

Regards,
Kubur
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Old 30th October 2014, 05:37 AM   #23
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IMHO it is most unlikely that a 19th century (or earlier) Khanjar would appear thru the "normal" channels ie.Ebay etc. I think you would have to look at REPUTABLE dealers to find a good old one, and the price I believe would not be cheap. Good luck with your quest.
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Old 30th October 2014, 07:24 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubur
Thank you Ariel!
I will put mine in the second level of al-Nakas definition...
As it looks quite good in hands.
Nevertheless I was so desperate that I got another one.
I don't think that this one is a bad one...
:-)
Kubur

This particular style of Khanjar was discussed at some length here http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18700 where it was decided that the style was definitely from KSA but could either be from Al Hasa or Asir....refer to post #13 for differences between the two.
Stu
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Old 30th October 2014, 01:51 PM   #25
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The khunjar in post #6 has a fine silver face of closely placed pins. In my experience the material of the hilt itself is probably worthy of closer inspection.

The jambiya in post #14 is, as Khanjar1 says, now thought to be KSA. A convincing point, to me, as Ibrahim points out, is the two small lugs on the rear of the scabbard which would facilitate attachment to a wide Yemeni style belt, and be redundant on a true Omani khunjar. Ruth Hawley's book (1978) on Omani silver illustrates a similar jambiya, but on an Omani belt, which she attributes 'probably' to the Sharqiyah in Oman. This attribution may be wrong, but I think we can safely assume the khunjar was in Oman, when she acquired it. I stiil wouldn't bet my house some of these might not have been made in Oman.

The King Feisal Centre Exhibition catalogue has two jambiya with this type of scabbard (page 56) described as from Al Ahsa, 'contemporary' (1990) and 'Doojaniyan' . I often wondered what that meant. Now, thanks to Mr Alnakkas, I know. But, would the the inhabitants of Al Ahsa, which is a long way from the Asir wear their jambiya on a Yemeni type belt, or an Omani type ? Does anyone know more of Abdulaziz Al Dojani ? I am beginning to think he must have had a sizeable workshop, if we knew where it was (or is), some attributions might be more certain.

Regards
Richard

Last edited by Richard G : 30th October 2014 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 30th October 2014, 01:58 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard G
The khunjar in post #6 has a fine silver face of closely placed pins. In my experience the material of the hilt itself is probably worthy of closer inspection.

The jambiya in post # is, as Khanjar1 says, now thought to be KSA. A convincing point, to me, as Ibrahim points out, is the two small lugs on the rear of the scabbard which would facilitate attachment to a wide Yemeni style belt, and be redundant on a true Omani khunjar. Ruth Hawley's book (1978) on Omani silver illustrates a similar jambiya, but on an Omani belt, which she attributes 'probably' to the Sharqiyah in Oman. This attribution may be wrong, but I think we can safely assume the khunjar was in Oman, when she acquired it.

The King Feisal Centre Exhibition catalogue has two jambiya with this type of scabbard (page 56) described as 'Doojaniiyan' and 'contemporary' and from Al Ahsa (1990). I often wondered what that meant. Now, thanks to Mr Alnakkas, I know. Does anyone know more of Abdulaziz Al Dojani, I am beginning to think he must have had a sizeable workshop.
Regards
Richard


I noticed the close pins too. This is certainly old as new craftsmen do not do it that well now and their tries look bad in my eyes. I have seen it mainly on rhino, but in Oman I saw some applied to a honey colored hard wood type.

Dojan is supposedly still in business and makes plenty of khanjars. May next plan is to visit Saudi Arabia and gather as much information as possible from the source. AS for the King Faisal book, it has many flaws.
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Old 30th October 2014, 02:12 PM   #27
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Sorry, Mr Alnakkas,
We crossed in the edit. Do you know where AlDojani's workshop is?
Asir, Al Hasa, Nejd?
Thanks
Richard
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Old 30th October 2014, 02:49 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard G
Sorry, Mr Alnakkas,
We crossed in the edit. Do you know where AlDojani's workshop is?
Asir, Al Hasa, Nejd?
Thanks
Richard


Asir supposedly. But I need to go and check for myself. I do not trust the information I get from other collectors there.
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Old 31st October 2014, 02:18 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard G
The khunjar in post #6 has a fine silver face of closely placed pins. In my experience the material of the hilt itself is probably worthy of closer inspection.

The jambiya in post #14 is, as Khanjar1 says, now thought to be KSA. A convincing point, to me, as Ibrahim points out, is the two small lugs on the rear of the scabbard which would facilitate attachment to a wide Yemeni style belt, and be redundant on a true Omani khunjar. Ruth Hawley's book (1978) on Omani silver illustrates a similar jambiya, but on an Omani belt, which she attributes 'probably' to the Sharqiyah in Oman. This attribution may be wrong, but I think we can safely assume the khunjar was in Oman, when she acquired it. I stiil wouldn't bet my house some of these might not have been made in Oman.

The King Feisal Centre Exhibition catalogue has two jambiya with this type of scabbard (page 56) described as from Al Ahsa, 'contemporary' (1990) and 'Doojaniyan' . I often wondered what that meant. Now, thanks to Mr Alnakkas, I know. But, would the the inhabitants of Al Ahsa, which is a long way from the Asir wear their jambiya on a Yemeni type belt, or an Omani type ? Does anyone know more of Abdulaziz Al Dojani ? I am beginning to think he must have had a sizeable workshop, if we knew where it was (or is), some attributions might be more certain.

Regards
Richard



Salaams Richard G ...My first reference is from Forum Library at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...=omani+khanjars which deals with daggers from the Asir in what are known in Oman as Habaabi or of Abha weapons...Abha being the local capital.

Whilst I would never run down the famous work of Ruth Hawley in what was a ground breaking but limited publication ...full of great historical broad and wide facts on Omani Silver where there is the most peculiar page showing the Dagger with a grainy and difficult to detect picture of the interloper you mention... indeed not a Muscat Dagger as I first imagined but one from The Asir, Yemen now part of KSA...and covered elsewhere on Forum... An area kept very much in the dark for a long time after it changed ownership (1920?)and from which very little information leaked out until relatively recently. It was not actually written into the KSA statute books until around 1935...and remained shrouded in darkness for many years after... Ruth Hawleys book in fact would not have had the information to hand as it was still a difficult area when it was written...but it is generally seen and agreed that the weapon shown is from the Asir.

To view another tranche of odd and mistaken Khanjars see www.omanisilver.com where the authors misplace in their virtual entirety a complete group of Khanjars as Omani when in fact they are from the Flower Tribal Asir region now in KSA. Easily done I suppose...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi : 31st October 2014 at 02:36 PM.
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