hmong knife from French Guiana

kronckew · 27th October 2014, 07:28 PM

not sure what thais use, but khukuris use 'laha', also known as himalayan epoxy. it's a mix of tree resin, bees wax, powdered brick and (dried) water buffalo or yak dung. may also have hair mixed in. a similar mix is used to hold tulwar blades to their handles. it is thermo-setting, if you heat the grip to around the boiling point of water, it softens and the parts can be dislocated. wood/horn khukuri grips can be placed in a oven bag then held in a pot of boiling water till the stuff is soft enough to loosen. older khukuris with loose grips can be fixed by thus re-melting the laha.

it smells wonderful. if you are married, do NOT do this in the kitchen unless you want an immediate divorce.

there are recipes for laha, or western cultlers cement, or equivalents, if i recall, posted here on the fora. or google. some of the recipes are actually not smelly enough to alienate your significant other. if the knife is to be part of a collection, the more traditional goop would be better.

epoxy is essentially forever. heating it hot enough to melt it loose i suspect would permanently damage the wood.

blue lander · 27th October 2014, 07:41 PM

Thanks for the heads up about the smell. That link I put in the first post shows that other guys French Guiana Hmong knife and his blade came loose and it does look like some sort of natural resin was used. I was thinking of dunking it in boiled linseed oil to see of the hilt plumps up a bit and the crack closes.

Robert · 28th October 2014, 04:20 AM

If there is not a oversized tang socket in the handle and very little extra space to fill this is the best recipe for cutlers wax I've found so far. It also has the extra benefit of actually smelling nice when being prepared for use.

In a double boiler mix:
8 oz pine pitch or damar,
1/4 cup Carnauba wax
4 oz beeswax
Stir until well mixed. Have the hilt warmed slightly to help keep the wax from setting to fast. Carefully pour mixture into socket and insert heated tang. Brace for a few minutes until wax sets.

If there is a lot of space to fill just add charcoal crushed into a powder to this mixture to take up the extra space and for added strength.

If you are going to be using this for doing a lot of cutting or hacking limbs from trees I would still use epoxy, but that is just my personal opinion.

Best,
Robert

Robert · 6th November 2014, 03:48 AM

Just asking a question about the name of these knives, is it hmong or enep?

I too have one example of these knives and seeing that there are not that many shown on the forum I thought I would add it here as well. Instead of a wooden scabbard mine has one made of rattan similar to the second one down in Kronckews photo. Unlike the others shown above it also has some designs stamped into each side of the blade. Sorry about the very poor photo quality, but at the present these are the only ones that I have.

Best,
Robert

kronckew · 6th November 2014, 06:32 AM

'hmong' is the name of a tribe of mountain people in northern thailand/laos/vietnam, sometimes referred to as montagnards, they were staunch allies of the USA in the vietnam war, many were repatriated to the USA and canada afterwards, tho many were left behind. they were fond of using crossbows.

'enep' is a thai word meaning 'knife'.

the hmong favour an enep style knife like the ones discussed here.

the vendor of the ones i've ordered also has one similar to yours on his site. photo attached below.

the other photo shows a high status hmong chieftan's knife made by an acquaintance in vietnam, along with the original he copied. sadly not for sale.

if you go to youtube & search 'hmong knife', there are a number of interesting videos.

Robert · 6th November 2014, 07:19 AM

Hello Kronckew and thank you very much for clearing that up for me. Do you have any idea of the age of my knife? One of the examples you show has a rattan sheath like mine (though not quite as elaborate) is this normal for one of these or was it just a replacement for a wooden one like most of the others shown here have?

Best,
Robert

kronckew · 6th November 2014, 09:47 AM

i think the scabbard depends on the available local materials. i suspect the woven ones are more thai. most of the locally made ones i've seen were wood. the original fancy one above was wood, and the smith faithfully reproduced the horn handle, then made a horn scabbard for it.

as these were made for ages, and are still made much the same way, and are meant to be and are used hard, i would not hazard a guess at age. i suspect older ones would have been resharpened so many times they'd be rather thinner in profile, unless of course some foreign collector like us obtained it a long time ago & put it up nicely oiled and unused. so it could be anywhere from a few years old to a couple centuries.

6th November 2014, 03:48 AM	#4
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Just asking a question about the name of these knives, is it hmong or enep? I too have one example of these knives and seeing that there are not that many shown on the forum I thought I would add it here as well. Instead of a wooden scabbard mine has one made of rattan similar to the second one down in Kronckews photo. Unlike the others shown above it also has some designs stamped into each side of the blade. Sorry about the very poor photo quality, but at the present these are the only ones that I have. Best, Robert Attached Images Last edited by Robert; 6th November 2014 at 09:25 PM.

6th November 2014, 06:32 AM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,216	'hmong' is the name of a tribe of mountain people in northern thailand/laos/vietnam, sometimes referred to as montagnards, they were staunch allies of the USA in the vietnam war, many were repatriated to the USA and canada afterwards, tho many were left behind. they were fond of using crossbows. 'enep' is a thai word meaning 'knife'. the hmong favour an enep style knife like the ones discussed here. the vendor of the ones i've ordered also has one similar to yours on his site. photo attached below. the other photo shows a high status hmong chieftan's knife made by an acquaintance in vietnam, along with the original he copied. sadly not for sale. if you go to youtube & search 'hmong knife', there are a number of interesting videos. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 6th November 2014 at 07:03 AM.

27th October 2014, 07:28 PM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,216	not sure what thais use, but khukuris use 'laha', also known as himalayan epoxy. it's a mix of tree resin, bees wax, powdered brick and (dried) water buffalo or yak dung. may also have hair mixed in. a similar mix is used to hold tulwar blades to their handles. it is thermo-setting, if you heat the grip to around the boiling point of water, it softens and the parts can be dislocated. wood/horn khukuri grips can be placed in a oven bag then held in a pot of boiling water till the stuff is soft enough to loosen. older khukuris with loose grips can be fixed by thus re-melting the laha. it smells wonderful. if you are married, do NOT do this in the kitchen unless you want an immediate divorce. there are recipes for laha, or western cultlers cement, or equivalents, if i recall, posted here on the fora. or google. some of the recipes are actually not smelly enough to alienate your significant other. if the knife is to be part of a collection, the more traditional goop would be better. epoxy is essentially forever. heating it hot enough to melt it loose i suspect would permanently damage the wood.

27th October 2014, 07:41 PM	#2
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Thanks for the heads up about the smell. That link I put in the first post shows that other guys French Guiana Hmong knife and his blade came loose and it does look like some sort of natural resin was used. I was thinking of dunking it in boiled linseed oil to see of the hilt plumps up a bit and the crack closes.

28th October 2014, 04:20 AM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	If there is not a oversized tang socket in the handle and very little extra space to fill this is the best recipe for cutlers wax I've found so far. It also has the extra benefit of actually smelling nice when being prepared for use. In a double boiler mix: 8 oz pine pitch or damar, 1/4 cup Carnauba wax 4 oz beeswax Stir until well mixed. Have the hilt warmed slightly to help keep the wax from setting to fast. Carefully pour mixture into socket and insert heated tang. Brace for a few minutes until wax sets. If there is a lot of space to fill just add charcoal crushed into a powder to this mixture to take up the extra space and for added strength. If you are going to be using this for doing a lot of cutting or hacking limbs from trees I would still use epoxy, but that is just my personal opinion. Best, Robert

6th November 2014, 07:19 AM	#6
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Kronckew and thank you very much for clearing that up for me. Do you have any idea of the age of my knife? One of the examples you show has a rattan sheath like mine (though not quite as elaborate) is this normal for one of these or was it just a replacement for a wooden one like most of the others shown here have? Best, Robert

6th November 2014, 09:47 AM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,216	i think the scabbard depends on the available local materials. i suspect the woven ones are more thai. most of the locally made ones i've seen were wood. the original fancy one above was wood, and the smith faithfully reproduced the horn handle, then made a horn scabbard for it. as these were made for ages, and are still made much the same way, and are meant to be and are used hard, i would not hazard a guess at age. i suspect older ones would have been resharpened so many times they'd be rather thinner in profile, unless of course some foreign collector like us obtained it a long time ago & put it up nicely oiled and unused. so it could be anywhere from a few years old to a couple centuries.