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Old 8th December 2013, 01:56 PM   #31
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The fighting order at the Battle of Lützen, Nov. 6, 1632, of both the Swedish and Imperial forces.

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Old 8th December 2013, 03:00 PM   #32
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An Italo-French Late-Renaissance design for a trapezoid musketeers flask body, ca. 1590; The Met.

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Old 8th December 2013, 06:35 PM   #33
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This trapezoid flask, the wooden body originally covered with soft purple corduan leather or, in our instance, with purple velvet only the basic fabric of which is still present, the iron mounts and belt hook originally tinned, and originally fitted with a top lid linked on a delicate chain, was made in large numbers in Nuremberg in the 1550's and 1560's and is found in some samples in the famous Churburg collection, Schluderns, South Tyrol.
On unaltered samples, the belt hook is mounted askew at the rear.

A very fine instance covered with corduan leather and perfectly preseserved in all its original details, is in the author's colln., see attachment #21, the first, at the left rear side.



I enclosed an attachment of such flasks in the Churburg colln., and a representation of a corduan-leather maker from Chr. Weigel's Ständebuch.



Best,
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Old 29th January 2014, 10:16 AM   #34
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An Austrian musketeer's flask, wooden body covered with leather and mounted with iron fittings, late 16th/early 17th c., damaged but in virtually 'untouched! condition.

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Old 26th February 2014, 12:58 PM   #35
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This Swiss sample of ca. 1600, the body covered with green velvet, and retaining its original woollen tassels, I photographed at an auction viewing.
The original top mount lid suspended from a small chain is missing, as is the case with most trapezoid flasks.

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Old 26th February 2014, 01:36 PM   #36
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A nice sample, and in perfectly preserved original condition, ca. 1580.
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Old 26th February 2014, 01:51 PM   #37
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Two large specimens of trapezoid musketeer's flasks partly retaining their tassels, in the reserveve collection of the City Museum Köln (Cologne), ca. 1570, the body of the one on the left covered with parchment.
The left one of the small flasks was for priming powder, ca. 1570-80, the other with the additional leather pouch belonged to the pistols and arquebuses of Saxon guardsmen of ca. 1560. The pouch was v´certainly not for balls but probably for reserve pyrites or small cleaning tools such as worms and scourers.

Author's photos, 1987.

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Old 7th March 2014, 08:33 AM   #38
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Hello Matchlock and all,

I think I understand the mechanism of these powderflasks, but would like to know for sure. Could you perhaps point me to a description or sectional drawing of these?

Thanks and best,
Martin
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Old 8th March 2014, 05:10 PM   #39
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Hi Martin,


I can but provide you with a detail from Jacob de Gheyn's exercise manual Wapenhandelinghe van Roers, Mvsqvetten ende Spiessen, 1608, showing a caliverman loading his matchlock caliver (German: Schützenrohr) from the flask.
First he had to push the lateral cutoff lever against the pressure of a spring, then he would turn the flask uspide down allowing powder to fill the nozzle. Next he would release the cutoff lever, thus saving the correct amount of powder in the nozzle, and hold the nozzle over the muzzle of his caliver. By pressing the long top lever he allowed the measured amount of powder to run down the barrel.
This last step is depicted in the attached engraving, with one difference: as the type of flask shown does not seem to have a long spring-loaded top lever he had to use his thumb to close the nozzle and measure the right dose of powder.

This procedure was basically the same with both caliverman's and (trapezoid) musketeer's flasks.


I also attached an image of the detached top mount of a trapezoid flask and view of the internal mechanism of such a flask, illustrating the thin oval cutoff plate moving on the same rivet, and parallel to the cutoff lever, and closing or opening the nozzle entrance.
The fact that you see two nozzles on the same top mount is due to the special construction of that unique two-way flask:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...eteer%27s+flask


Best,
Michael
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Old 8th March 2014, 05:15 PM   #40
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Old 8th March 2014, 05:26 PM   #41
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Hi Michael,

thank you for the detailed description and the link to the pictures showing exactly the details I wanted reconfirmed. The meachism works as I imagined it would. This was most helpful, highly appreciated!
Now I need to build one of these for my little arquebus :-)

Best,
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Old 8th March 2014, 06:33 PM   #42
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Hi Martin,


As an optimum fit with a ca. 1525 snap-tinderlock arquebus like yours, I would recommend either a powder horn terminating in a mechanism at its broad end, as shown on a series of tapestries of the Battle at Pavia which are now preserved in the Capodimonte museum Naples, a small round flask with top mechanism, as depicted in a drawing of ca. 1520-30, or the earliest type of a trapezoid flask combined with a leather pouch (most certainly not for balls but for cleaning tools that could be screwed to the threaded iron finial (German: eiserner Setzerkopf mit Innengewinde) of the ramrod - the ramrod on your arquebus is not fitted with such a finial, I realize, as it was missing from the original gun that Armin copied):
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...trapezoid+flask

Tomorrow, I will take good images of small and round ca. 1560 Nuremberg flask in my collection, the obverse also with a nailed-on leather pouch much too delicate to hold balls.

Generally spoken, the mechanism on such early flasks was nearly identical to that on later 16th c. samples.


Best,
Michael
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Old 9th March 2014, 09:46 PM   #43
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Hi Michael,

excellent! Many thanks for your efforts, this is very kind indeed. I will talk to a friend of mine who does wood turning to look into a circular flask. I will definitely also do a small trapezoid one. Need to finish some shoes first, though :-)

Best,
Martin
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Old 18th March 2014, 08:13 PM   #44
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Hi Martin,


I found the perfect flask to go with your snap-tinderlock arquebus; it is part of an arquebusier's bandelier, early to mid-16th c., in the reserve collection of the Historisches Museum Basel.
On the same bandelier, together with six small tinned-iron and leather covered powder measures, is a contemporary wooden flask, the leather tooled with the city arms of Basel, an episcopal staff. This is the earliest type of trapezoid flask I have ever seen, with very straight sides, just like the High Gothic quivers for crossbow bolts!

The more curved the sides are the later is the flask but this of course is relative: the earliest trapezoid flasks seem to have appeared in the 1520's (we see them on Heller's painting of the Battle of Pavia 1525), and again on Melchior Feselen's Battle of Alesia, 1533, when they still had straight sides; then the curving became more notable and soon reached its climax, as did the contemporary buttstocks of the Nuremberg muskets (dated samples of 1567 and 1568 in the Landeszeughaus Graz, Austria). So there was no real stylistic development to trapezoid flasks after ca. 1570-80, and as I said, their production generally seems to have ceased by the end of the 16th century.

My rough-and ready rule for dating a trapezoid flask has always been to look at the curving of the buttstock of a contemporary arquebus or musket because the gun and flask followed the same stylistic principles and had to match in style.

I attached some early 16th c. artwork depicting both powder and water flasks, and a finely crafted drinking flask in the Germanisches Nationalmuseum (GNM) Nuremberg, the leather carved with Late Gothic foliage.

As you will see, what all these Early Renaissance flasks had in common was the small stand at the base, and so does the flask in Basel.

Please see also
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18294


Best,
Michael
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Old 19th March 2014, 12:31 PM   #45
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Here is another very early trapezoid flask, North Italian, ca. 1520-40, with a characteristically Italian dosing device (a horizontal cutoff) to the nozzle, a stage of development that is missing on the Basel flasks, the leather tooled in the Italian manner, and both sides completely straight, with no curving.
Imperial Castle Nuremberg, author's photos.

Bottom attachment: this the shape of a typical High Gothic quiver for quarrels/crossbow bolts; its basic form with the straight sides - and the later, concavely curved types - strongly influenced the earliest trapezoid powder flasks and, for the complete short span of time of their production, which was only from ca. 1550-1590, the rare patrons for paper cartridges:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...aper+cartridges

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...aper+cartridges

First quiver: Bavarian Army Museum Ingolstadt, the second in a private collection.
Author's photgraphs.


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Old 19th March 2014, 09:47 PM   #46
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Mi Michael,

A bit off topic, but i saw in you post 44 picture 4 a arquebuse with a lock on the leftside. I was wondering if this is due because of the image beeing inverted or because their where really arquebuses like that with a lock on the left side? It would be a suprise if it was, seeing as this would be a custom job for one particulair soldier?

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Marcus
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Old 19th March 2014, 10:22 PM   #47
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Hi Marcus,


It is part of a generally accepted basic knowledge in art history that 15th/16th century artisans - in the case of this woodcut it was Hans Schäufelein, Nuremberg, ca. 1513 - just did not care if their artwork appeared mirrored and laterally reversed.

This fact can be verified by many pieces of the fine arts. In some cases it doubtlessly prevented the artisan from facing the dilemma that he would have to depict the lock mechanism of a gun. That, in my opinion, is exactly the reason why many guns, up till the end of the 18th century, are represented from the 'left' side, opposite of where normall the lock would be - simply because the respective artisan avoided being technically exact.

By at least the 17th century though, we know some guns that were actually made with left-hand sided locks, for left-aiming persons.

Enclosed please find a Resurrection scene by Jan Joest, in the Nicolai Church in Kalkar, of 1506-08, and others.


Best,
Michael
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Old 20th March 2014, 12:10 PM   #48
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Default Snap-Tinderlock Arquebus with Left-hand Sided Lock Mechanism

... made for a left aiming arquebusier.

I knew I had seen it somewhere before, and here it is, right in my archives: Nuremberg, ca. 1525-30, in the Brukenthal Museum Sibiu/Hermannstadt, Romania.
The long tubular rear sight missing from the barrel, the two original pods for it preserved.

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Old 20th March 2014, 07:29 PM   #49
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Hi Michl,

Thank you for the pictures of the left handed arquebuse, i will save them in my personal records
I never saw such a left handed arquebuse, the only lefthanded firearms from that periode i know of where pistols.

best,
Marcus
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Old 25th March 2014, 01:03 PM   #50
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These musketeers flasks were sold Hermann Historica, Munich, 17 Oct 2012.

The first is of Nuremberg make and of a type that was ordered in large numbers by many armories, among them the Styrian Armory in Graz, in 1577-78. The wooden body is covered with velvet which was either black, blue or green, while the iron mounts contrasted with their tinned surfaces.
So common is this group of musketeers flasks that they are worth collecting only in the best condition, with their iron mounts still tinned and the reverse belt hook and chained nozzle lid still preserved! The latter is missing on this flask in discussion but attached see a photo of two especially fine samplse in my collection, their bodies covered with blue and green velvet respectively, and retaining their original wool and raw silk tassels (both in the back row of the glass case).
Next in line, after the photo of my glass case, is a small Saxon powder flask covered with black leather and combined with a leather pouch with pull strings (missing), ca. 1560-70; the leather pouch did certainly not hold balls but maybe reserve pyrites and little cleaning tools like a worm and scourer.
Finally, there is a Swiss musketeers flask, ca. 1580, the wooden body covered with green velvet, the tassels modern, and a Swiss priming flask, the body covered with brown velvet.

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Old 10th April 2014, 09:34 PM   #51
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This specimen of ca. 1570, the wooden body covered with greenish velvet (now heavily rubbed), featured a very rare sprung nozzle lid and, almost uniquely!, retained its original delicate touch hole pricker but was missing the reverse belt hook - a deficit rendering it unacceptable for any serious collection.

The American auction house refuses providing any information on the prices their objects sold for, so you may guess it went extremely cheap.


Best,
Michael
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Old 7th May 2014, 01:07 PM   #52
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No post. To be deleted ...

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Old 7th May 2014, 01:10 PM   #53
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Here is another very early and extraordinarily rare trapezoid arquebusier's flask, ca. 1540-50.
It was with a dealer years ago.
The wooden body is covered by a specific kind of early- to mid-16th century leather, called cordovan/corduan, and first identified on mid-16th c. trapezoid flasks - only three of them had survived! - in the famous historic, 700 year-old arsenal at the Castle of CHURBURG, Schluderns, South Tyrol - see b/w attachment.
The wavy ornament seen at the lower edge of the basal iron mount is a typical Early Renaissance stylistic element that also occurs on ca. 1530's to 1540 guns and other ironwork. This ornament is also present on the rear end of the limewood stock and the muzzle of my fine Nuremberg Landsknecht arquebus, dated 1539, as well as on its counterpart in the Germanisches Nationalmuseum Nürnberg:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...=harquebus+1539

Most remarkably, there are none of the usual mechanical devices to the top mount base, like a spring loaded cutoff for dispensing the correct amount of powder into the nozzle. This, too, is a very early technical feature, which has only been known so far from one single similar, ca. 1530's flask in the Imperial Castle Nuremberg, featuring a brass nozzle - see post #45 - , and from another ca. 1530's-40 flask, in the author's collection. It has never been published before; basically, it obviously was part of the same series as my flask from post #42.
It is in a somewhat heavier damaged condition than my other early flask, the one retaining its leather pouch; most of the iron reinforcing mounts along the edges, and one of the four rings for suspension by a cord, are all missing - see attachments at the bottom. It definitely shows traces of hard and long 'service' on the fields of war, since almost 500 years ago! If only that flask could talk and tell ... I am absolutely convinced that about 100 years after they were made, they got re-used during the Thirty Years War (1618-1648).

Still it is an important piece, preserved in virtually 'untouched' condition, and featuring all the early 'stitch' like decoration, as well as the finely tooled corduan leather characteristic of earliest flasks. Moreover, it provides valuable historic information on the way it was built.

And here is the Wikipedia information on modern cordovan leather:
Shell cordovan
Shell cordovan Oxford Brogue

Shell cordovan (or cordovan) is a type of leather commonly used in shoemaking. Cordovan is an equine leather made from the fibrous flat muscle (or shell) beneath the hide on the rump of the horse.[1] The leather derives its name from the city of Cordoba, Spain, where it was originally prepared by the Moors.[2]

Production
After removal from the animal, the hide is measured from the root of the tail 18 inches forward on the backbone. The hide is cut at right angles to the backbone and the resulting pieces termed a "front" (the forward part) and the "butt". The term cordovan leather applies to the product of both the tanned fronts and tanned butts, but is especially used in connection with the term galoshes, meaning the vamps or boot-fronts cut from the shell of the butt.[3]
After being tanned, leather from the "front" is typically used in the fabrication of gloves, or blackened, to be used in the tops of shoes. The "butt", after tanning, is passed through a splitting-machine which removes the grain, or hair side, revealing what is termed the "shell". The close fibers of the shell result in a smooth and pliable leather used almost exclusively in the manufacture of shoes [3] and watch straps, although another use is for the manufacture of finger protection tabs for recreational archery, where it is prized for its toughness, longevity, and protective qualities.
References
Baldwin, William Henry (1929). The Shopping Book. The Macmillan company. p. 223.
Watt, Alexander (1906). Leather Manufacture. Van Nostrand. p. 228.
Encyclopaedia Britannica (1905). Encyclopaedia Britannica. The Werner Company. p. 284.



A tiny number of other specimens from that same series, all of them originally equipped with a leather pouch on the obverse, has survived and is preserved in the museums of Munich (Stadtmuseum), Bavaria, and one single sample in the Army Museum of Warsaw, Poland - see post #42!.


Best,
Michael
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Old 7th May 2014, 02:13 PM   #54
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Two more close-ups.

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Old 7th May 2014, 02:59 PM   #55
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A mid-16th century arquebusier's/musketeer's flask, of usual design.
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Old 15th May 2014, 03:28 PM   #56
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Default Belt Hooks and Frog Hogs on Flasks, ca. 1520/30 to 1700

For exact definitions, please see my posts and attachments:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...0341#post170341

m
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Old 12th October 2014, 04:21 PM   #57
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The battle of Marciano in Val di Chiana
HTML Code:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/Giorgio_Vasari_-_The_battle_of_Marciano_in_Val_di_Chiana_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg
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Old 13th October 2014, 12:38 AM   #58
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Hi Carlos,


Thank you so much for pointing out these important details!

When I posted some close-ups of trapezoid flasks from that painting in this thread years ago, I only found an image on Wikipedia - sadly in low resolution.

Here is the link to the 8 MB photo you detected:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Art_Project.jpg


Best,
Michael
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Old 18th December 2014, 07:42 PM   #59
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For some of the finest caliverman's flasks in existence see
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19421
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