Long Philippine Swords

[ariel]

I was asking the very same question several times already and never got an answer.
Now I know why....
Well, guys, the philosophical musings of the "find your own answer to open your mind" variety just do not cut!
Either we know the answer or we do not.
Either the answer exist or does not.
Either there are different names for the same sword in different dialects or we just call them all "a pigsticker" and go home.
Zonneveld listed several names for the same sword on multiple occasions: this is perfectly legitimate. After all, Persian Qama and Georgian Satevari describe the same weapon and the differences are philological. The generic Arabian Sayf or Turkish Kilic means just "sword", but within those broad categories there are specific weapons.
I just cannot believe that our "Philippino" colleagues can not agree on the proper taxonomy of sansibar, pinuti, binagong etc.

[Rick]

Ariel , I get the impression that sword terminology in the Philippines is at least every bit as confusing as keris terminology is in Indonesia .
What is called by one name in a certain area is called by another a few kilometers away .
I think that point was made earlier in the thread by more than one person.


Kind of like the Italian sandwich in America .
In one place it's a 'Sub' in another a 'Grinder' , some other places it's called a 'Wedge' , a 'Hoagie' ad infinitum .

I'd also like to address another subject that has come up in this thread ; the issue of sniping .
Whether this is ethical or not the point is moot ; eBay allows it .

I am much of the same mind as Mabagani in that I rarely use eBay any more .
The prices are inflated most of the time and so many seek the same thing .

Before hard feelings get involved though I think we all need to realize one thing ; not everyone here knows every Forum member's eBay username .
My forum name is not my eBay handle ; how many of you have the same user ID as your forum name ?

[LabanTayo]

Originally Posted by Rick

how many of you have the same user ID as your forum name ?

I do.........

[Rick]

Well , I guess I'd be Rick 324576 or something like that then .
Instead , I'm raffles and if I get sniped then so be it ; I've been sniped by other members before . <shrug>
I've never taken it personally .

[zelbone]

...well....I'll say it again

I wouldn't get hung up on terminology...it's a moot point. Even for us "native" Visayans (er...haf Visayan ) it's confusing. I learned that firsthand myself in the Visayas...exposed to 4 different dialects...just 4!

LabanTayo said something to us last night during silat practice that was relative..."you could learn a thousand ways to punch, but in the end a punch is just a punch."

...same as a sword is just a sword.

And in the Visayas, it really doesn't matter what a sword is called when one is pointed at you...all that matters then is the sword you have in your hand and your confidence in you're ability to use it.

That is what Visayan swords are all about...the reality of it...they are just instruments of death...

...and it's not that we (i.e. the Filipino members here) cannot agree to proper taxonomy on this issue...but it's more out of respect for each others dialect/culture/heritage. The last thing a Filipino wants to do is offend another Filipino. As I've said before offending another Filipino usually ends up with drawn swords....thinks about...why are there so many different Filipino swords ?


...as for sniping

I understand eBay is fair game...it's an auction. But, if I see another forum member bidding on something, I usually leave it alone or at least email that person to work out a deal. We each have our own niche and most of us know each other's niche. But what really upsets me is to be sniped by someone here and then have them post it and ask for MY opinion. I've been called out on several threads lately as an "expert" on certain pieces that I've been sniped on. Do you guys really think I will say anything then? I may be the one with the "answers" but sniping me and then posting them here won't get those "answers" from me.

[LabanTayo]

[QUOTE=zelboneLabanTayo said something to us last night during silat practice that was relative..."you could learn a thousand ways to punch, but in the end a punch is just a punch."
[QUOTE]

Just want to give credit for the reference, Bruce Lee made the comment
"a punch is a punch and a kick is a kick".

[Spunjer]

lol @ this thread...

[MABAGANI]

Originally Posted by zelbone

...same as a sword is just a sword.

...unless its a barung.

[LabanTayo]

sorry, double post

[LabanTayo]

Originally Posted by ariel

I was asking the very same question several times already and never got an answer.
Now I know why....
Well, guys, the philosophical musings of the "find your own answer to open your mind" variety just do not cut!
Either we know the answer or we do not.
Either the answer exist or does not.
Either there are different names for the same sword in different dialects or we just call them all "a pigsticker" and go home.
Zonneveld listed several names for the same sword on multiple occasions: this is perfectly legitimate. After all, Persian Qama and Georgian Satevari describe the same weapon and the differences are philological. The generic Arabian Sayf or Turkish Kilic means just "sword", but within those broad categories there are specific weapons.
I just cannot believe that our "Philippino" colleagues can not agree on the proper taxonomy of sansibar, pinuti, binagong etc.

Ariel,
If only the Filipino (correct spelling) swords have been researched and documented as well as the Euro/Indo/Persian swords have been, then all of our questions would have been answered.
Cato tried with Moro swords. We are trying with Visayan swords. But, before we post/publish anything on Visayan swords that state a fact, we need to make sure what the name of any given sword is. What we had once thought to be a Tenegre, is now wrong. We have discovered many other names and are still trying to categorize them by blade shape and locale. We do not want to be hypocritical of ourselves down the road, so we do not offer any new facts until we have proven them to be concrete.

Here's an example:
The sword Robert posted here in this thread.
In Samar/Leyte its called a Sansibar.
Take the same sword to Negros, they will call it a Pinute. Take it to Panay, they will call it a Talibong. Take it to Manila, its a Bolo. Take it to Jolo, its a Parang. Take it to a Gun and Knife show, its now called a Confederate sword or Long Bowie knife. And its the same sword!!!

Ariel, we do not mean to seem snubbish to you or the other Forumites, but thats our situation. We have some of the answers, but need to be sure of them before letting them out. Thats why we have been quiet for a while.

[BSMStar]

Originally Posted by LabanTayo

In Samar/Leyte its called a Sansibar.
Take the same sword to Negros, they will call it a Pinute. Take it to Panay, they will call it a Talibong. Take it to Manila, its a Bolo. Take it to Jolo, its a Parang. Take it to a Gun and Knife show, its now called a Confederate sword or Long Bowie knife. And its the same sword!!!

Hey, I can get more money for it on eBay as a Confederate sword!

[Rick]

You sure can !
We all have seen some wickedly expensive CW 'mistakes' .

Zel , I see your point and I would never intentionally snipe another Forum Member . Once a forum member has been outbid by another non member the waters get more muddied .

Polite contact before bidding is a very nice thing to do .

[Andrew]

Thanks to everyone for the information that has been provided about these swords. I can empathize with those of you researching Visayan weapons. We've encountered many of the same problems with regard to mainland SEA. I can also completely understand the reluctance to come forward with definitive statements before a comfort level with the information and data has been reached.

With regard to the discussion of eBay etiquette, I think that is off-topic for this thread and would request the conversation be continued via PM or email, or a new thread be started.

Thanks, guys.
Andrew

[BSMStar]

Originally Posted by Rick

You sure can !
We all have seen some wickedly expensive CW 'mistakes' .

Yea, like the time I saw a South Vietnamese Marine cap insignia (Globe and Anchor) put up for auction as a CW Marine cap insignia..... Truly, they tend to be crudely hand cast, but the map of Vietnam on the center of the globe is kind of a give away. A rare piece, but not Civil War rare or priced.

Sorry, I am getting off the subject.

My handle on eBay is cageybee91.

I would love to obtain one Visayan deity hilt sword some day, but alas... I guess I will drool at the posted pictures and the Avatars.