How to get new leather/hide old ?

Sajen · 5th October 2014, 07:09 PM

Hello Shakethetrees,

I've used boot polish on some of my leather sheaths. The have get a nice look again. Was it a mistake? I think what is good for my shoes can't be wrong for the scabbards.

Regards,
Detlef

Shakethetrees · 5th October 2014, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Shakethetrees,

I've used boot polish on some of my leather sheaths. The have get a nice look again. Was it a mistake? I think what is good for my shoes can't be wrong for the scabbards.

Regards,
Detlef

No, boot polish and shoe polish are generally OK. They do not "feed" the leather, but sit in a layer on top. It's also a good protective coating to help the old leather resist deterioration from handling, etc.

Sajen · 5th October 2014, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shakethetrees

No, boot polish and shoe polish are generally OK. They do not "feed" the leather, but sit in a layer on top. It's also a good protective coating to help the old leather resist deterioration from handling, etc.

Thank you, good news!

Ken Maddock · 6th October 2014, 08:18 AM

To age leather I do the following
Depending if scabbard or handle
Either way New hide is full of dye generally, I soak it in water to take as much of the dye out as possible, one or two days with lots of rinsing
Then I form the leather onto whatever former I am using for scabbard and stitch up
Then I use sand paper 200 grit or so to rough up the edges and then polish out the rough with 800 grit
Bend and crease scabbard lots, then use old engine oil and dirt off workshop floor and rub into scabbard,
Rip out some of stitches and it should have the old look

For handles more or less same except no creasing possible
I have had reasonable results with running a flame over the grips to get it nearly crispy but it can go shiny if chrome was used in the tanning

I work in a well stocked lab and have I tried lots of chemicals but none really improved on above

A crucial rule would be to make whatever you are doing perfectly as distressing is not an excuse for bad workmanship, this can be weird making a grip very carefully and getting it so smooth and then hammering it to bits
Have fun
Ken

blue lander · 6th October 2014, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shakethetrees

No, boot polish and shoe polish are generally OK. They do not "feed" the leather, but sit in a layer on top. It's also a good protective coating to help the old leather resist deterioration from handling, etc.

What about something like Lexol? Only good for leather still in use? Would Lanolin be good for leather not still in use?

Shakethetrees · 7th October 2014, 12:51 AM

I was tiptoeing around the Lexol issue.

This was the exact stuff I used that first made me aware of the "feeding" problem!

A WWI Sam brown belt that needed a little TLC came my way. It was almost wearable, but I lexolled it following directions. Beginning with one end and working my way along, it seemed to be going OK.

When I went back to do a wipedown with a dry rag, all the stitching broke and I effectively now had a Sam Brown parts kit!

Attempt number two brought ruination to a chinstrap from a WWI American tin hat. No stitching, the leather just flaked away from the surface.

Attempt three (I'm a slow learner!) effectively took care of some old boots- the stitching self destructed, leaving a pile of leather fit for a shoemakers bench, and nothing more.

So, Lexol?

I wouldn't have it in my possession. The stuff should be made illegal.

Shakethetrees · 7th October 2014, 12:53 AM

Lexol attempts to " feed" leather, as does lanolin.

Stay away from all products that are not reversible.

Shoe polish or Renaissance Wax protects without chemically altering the stuff it's supposed to protect.

Martin Lubojacky · 7th October 2014, 08:29 AM

Yes, I fully agree, there is big danger with using of "feeding" products which are not reversible. On the other hand, a think there is difference among various such products.

For examle:
I do not have any experience with Lexol, but it is quite obvious, that Lexol is "commercial name" of product and I am not sure, if we know its real and exact (chemical) composition (and rates of ingredients) - detailed recipe is not always put out. On the other side, Lanolin is so called "chemical trivial name" of an essential and natural substance (composed of various chemicals, but the composition is well known to professional all over the world). From Wiki: Lanolin is a wax. Historically, many pharmacopoeias have referred to lanolin as wool fat; however, as lanolin lacks glycerides (glycerol esters), it is not a true fat. Lanolin primarily consists of sterol esters instead. Lanolin's waterproofing property aids sheep in shedding water from their coats.... Lanolin's role in nature is to protect wool and skin against the ravages of climate and the environment;...

But to shorten this input: Once I discussed with the restorers of Náprstek´s Muzeum in Prague the problematics of collecting African artefacts and we spoke about old shields made of heavy leather, too. Their standpoint was not clear to mee too much since they would like to avoid everything and if possible to close items to some specialised depositories/safes, where everything would be constant. Nevertheless they admitted, that if necessary, solution of Lanolin could be used - but in a small quantities and very carefully....
(nevertheless, this problematic is far away from what I am trying to solve now - how to make new leather old...)

Martin Lubojacky · 7th October 2014, 08:44 AM

Small addition from my experience:

If restorers from museums in Prague recommends anything, they always operate with chemicals or on the substances level - never commercial products (i.e. as far as terminology is concerned). I think restorers have generally mapped leverage on the chemical level, in the case of lanolin its molecular interactions with the chemical bonds in the leather.

5th October 2014, 07:09 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,166	Hello Shakethetrees, I've used boot polish on some of my leather sheaths. The have get a nice look again. Was it a mistake? I think what is good for my shoes can't be wrong for the scabbards. Regards, Detlef

6th October 2014, 08:18 AM	#4
Ken Maddock Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Posts: 104	To age leather I do the following Depending if scabbard or handle Either way New hide is full of dye generally, I soak it in water to take as much of the dye out as possible, one or two days with lots of rinsing Then I form the leather onto whatever former I am using for scabbard and stitch up Then I use sand paper 200 grit or so to rough up the edges and then polish out the rough with 800 grit Bend and crease scabbard lots, then use old engine oil and dirt off workshop floor and rub into scabbard, Rip out some of stitches and it should have the old look For handles more or less same except no creasing possible I have had reasonable results with running a flame over the grips to get it nearly crispy but it can go shiny if chrome was used in the tanning I work in a well stocked lab and have I tried lots of chemicals but none really improved on above A crucial rule would be to make whatever you are doing perfectly as distressing is not an excuse for bad workmanship, this can be weird making a grip very carefully and getting it so smooth and then hammering it to bits Have fun Ken

7th October 2014, 12:51 AM	#6
Shakethetrees Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Louisiana Posts: 363	I was tiptoeing around the Lexol issue. This was the exact stuff I used that first made me aware of the "feeding" problem! A WWI Sam brown belt that needed a little TLC came my way. It was almost wearable, but I lexolled it following directions. Beginning with one end and working my way along, it seemed to be going OK. When I went back to do a wipedown with a dry rag, all the stitching broke and I effectively now had a Sam Brown parts kit! Attempt number two brought ruination to a chinstrap from a WWI American tin hat. No stitching, the leather just flaked away from the surface. Attempt three (I'm a slow learner!) effectively took care of some old boots- the stitching self destructed, leaving a pile of leather fit for a shoemakers bench, and nothing more. So, Lexol? I wouldn't have it in my possession. The stuff should be made illegal.

7th October 2014, 12:53 AM	#7
Shakethetrees Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Louisiana Posts: 363	Lexol attempts to " feed" leather, as does lanolin. Stay away from all products that are not reversible. Shoe polish or Renaissance Wax protects without chemically altering the stuff it's supposed to protect.

7th October 2014, 08:29 AM	#8
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 843	Yes, I fully agree, there is big danger with using of "feeding" products which are not reversible. On the other hand, a think there is difference among various such products. For examle: I do not have any experience with Lexol, but it is quite obvious, that Lexol is "commercial name" of product and I am not sure, if we know its real and exact (chemical) composition (and rates of ingredients) - detailed recipe is not always put out. On the other side, Lanolin is so called "chemical trivial name" of an essential and natural substance (composed of various chemicals, but the composition is well known to professional all over the world). From Wiki: Lanolin is a wax. Historically, many pharmacopoeias have referred to lanolin as wool fat; however, as lanolin lacks glycerides (glycerol esters), it is not a true fat. Lanolin primarily consists of sterol esters instead. Lanolin's waterproofing property aids sheep in shedding water from their coats.... Lanolin's role in nature is to protect wool and skin against the ravages of climate and the environment;... But to shorten this input: Once I discussed with the restorers of Náprstek´s Muzeum in Prague the problematics of collecting African artefacts and we spoke about old shields made of heavy leather, too. Their standpoint was not clear to mee too much since they would like to avoid everything and if possible to close items to some specialised depositories/safes, where everything would be constant. Nevertheless they admitted, that if necessary, solution of Lanolin could be used - but in a small quantities and very carefully.... (nevertheless, this problematic is far away from what I am trying to solve now - how to make new leather old...)

7th October 2014, 08:44 AM	#9
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 843	Small addition from my experience: If restorers from museums in Prague recommends anything, they always operate with chemicals or on the substances level - never commercial products (i.e. as far as terminology is concerned). I think restorers have generally mapped leverage on the chemical level, in the case of lanolin its molecular interactions with the chemical bonds in the leather.