Arquebus fork rest c.1529-1530

[Cavalco]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Please see my new thread on gun rests/forks:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19127

Best,
Michael

Thank you so much for your work. I'm just an amateur, but I'm really interested in the subject. I appreciate it sincerely. I'll read it carefully

Regards, Carlos Valenzuela


Sure. A lock, not a key The spanish word "llave" is both lock and key.

As I said, and will show soon, those butts have a trap, a recess with a sliding wooden cover; it was NOT a "patchbox" but was used to keep small cleaning utensils, like a worm and scourer, and wadding for the load.
Please see an Italian arquebus of ca. 1525-30, with a butt trap on the underside of the buttstock in which the original cleaning tools are still preserved; in The Michael Trömner Collection

Thanks for the clarification

Wadding for the load It is always used?

I have been looking for more information about the parade entry in bologna. Several relationships about the same. I have found it interesting to note one:

Della venuta e dimora in Bologna del sommo pontefice Clemente VII. per la coronazione de Carlo V. imperatore celebrata l'anno MDXXX. Cronaca con note documenti ed incisioni (1842) f.31/p.75
https://archive.org/details/dellavenutaedimo00gior

finalmente una compagnia di moschettieri a cavallo intorno a quaranta carri di polvere, palle, e diverse munizioni; da ultimo tre vessilliferi, ed un drappello di moschettieri a piedi, che chiudevano questo trionfale corteggio

[English google translation]
finally a company of musketeers [on horse] riding around forty wagons of powder, balls, and other munitions; least three standard-bearers, and a squad of musketeers on foot, which closed this triumphal procession

I always thought there had not been musketeers walk to the 1560s

Greetings, Carlos

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by Cavalco

Thank you so much for your work. I'm just an amateur, but I'm really interested in the subject. I appreciate it sincerely. I'll read it carefully

Regards, Carlos Valenzuela

Sure. A lock, not a key The spanish word "llave" is both lock and key.


Hola! Carlos,

It is my turn to say thank you for studying my writings; that's why I take all that toil ...

I was aware of the fact that llave meant both; Fernando, the other forum Spaniard interested in early firearms, once told me so.


Thanks for the clarification

Wadding for the load It is always used?

It usually was; the reason being that the balls used with 'military' muzzle loading guns actually were of smaller caliber than the barrel bore. It quickened the loading procedure but if the gun was held, or aimed!, muzzle down, the ball would simply roll out.
It is the author's thesis that by ca. the 1540's, paper cartridges came in use.
Now the arquebusier, especially on horseback, would put the cartridge between his front teeth, ripp off the the ball, pour the gun powder in the barrel, "spit" the ball down the bore, crumble the paper and stuff it into the muzzle, to prevent the ball from falling out. Then he would simply ram the whole load home with the ramrod, prime the pan and was ready to fire.

I have been looking for more information about the parade entry in bologna. Several relationships about the same. I have found it interesting to note one:

Della venuta e dimora in Bologna del sommo pontefice Clemente VII. per la coronazione de Carlo V. imperatore celebrata l'anno MDXXX. Cronaca con note documenti ed incisioni (1842) f.31/p.75
https://archive.org/details/dellavenutaedimo00gior

finalmente una compagnia di moschettieri a cavallo intorno a quaranta carri di polvere, palle, e diverse munizioni; da ultimo tre vessilliferi, ed un drappello di moschettieri a piedi, che chiudevano questo trionfale corteggio

[English google translation]
finally a company of musketeers [on horse] riding around forty wagons of powder, balls, and other munitions; least three standard-bearers, and a squad of musketeers on foot, which closed this triumphal procession

I always thought there had not been musketeers walk to the 1560s

Oh yes, they usually had to. They were the infantry, after all, the foot soldiers.
It is only in those stupid Dumas movies about The Three Musketeers that you see them without a musket but always on horseback, or riding a coach instead ...

Greetings, Carlos

Kindest regards to Spain from Bavaria,
and best,
Michael

[Cavalco]

Wadding for the load It is always used?

It usually was; the reason being that the balls used with 'military' muzzle loading guns actually were of smaller caliber than the barrel bore. It quickened the loading procedure but if the gun was held, or aimed!, muzzle down, the ball would simply roll out.
It is the author's thesis that by ca. the 1540's, paper cartridges came in use.
Now the arquebusier, especially on horseback, would put the cartridge between his front teeth, ripp off the the ball, pour the gun powder in the barrel, "spit" the ball down the bore, crumble the paper and stuff it into the muzzle, to prevent the ball from falling out. Then he would simply ram the whole load home with the ramrod, prime the pan and was ready to fire.

In manuals such as Gheyn, the movement to put the wadding down the barrel is not indicated. I knew the difference in size between the bullet and the barrel: I attached a picture of sections of differents sizes of arquebuses and muskets in use from a manual of Cristóbal Lechuga [Discurso del capitan Cristoual Lechuga, en que trata de la artilleria, y de todo lo necessario a ella, 1611, p.71]
http://books.google.es/books?id=gUoT...page&q&f=false

In another manual - hunting manual: "Arte de ballestería y montería, 1644" - the author explains the use of wadding/blocks of bitumen felt, but to shoot pellets. It's not the same, of course...

But it's absolutely logical what are you explaining about the need of use the wadding. Thank you so much

I always thought there had not been musketeers walk to the 1560s

Oh yes, they usually had to. They were the infantry, after all, the foot soldiers.
It is only in those stupid Dumas movies about The Three Musketeers that you see them without a musket but always on horseback, or riding a coach instead ...

I meant so I had understood that the Musketeers were not as foot soldiers off the strongholds before the 1560s.

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Kindest regards to Spain from Bavaria,
and best,
Michael

Regards to Bavaria from Spain, Carlos

[Matchlock]

For earliest depictions of gun barrels, please also cf. my thread:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...non+depictions


Nobody has, at least to my knowledge, assembled these up to now.


From top to bottom:

- 1326, Walter de Milemete: Holkham ms 458, British Library

- 1326-7, Walter de Milemete: Oxford Christ Church ms 2 (traditional term), now: Oxford Bodleian Library ms 92, fol. 70v

- ca. 1340, detail of a fresco at Eremo Lecceto Abbey, near Siena, Italy - the earliest known piece of artwork depicting a wooden "carriage", or a "stock"

- ca. 1343-5, and very similar to the foregoing, from Jan van Boendale: Brabantsche Yeesten (Great Deeds of Brabant), Brussels, Royal Library, ms IV 684

As seen in the latter, in the earliest days of the gun, the charge of powder required was so large that the stone (!) ball was virtually located in the muzzle area (German: Steinbüchse).


Best,
Michael

[Cavalco]

Thanks for the answer.

About wadding and paper cartridges, I watched your two threads:

The Use of Wadding in 14th to 17th Century Gun Loading
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12290

Mid to Late 16th Century Patrons for Paper Cartridges
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8540


Very interesting!

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by Cavalco

Thanks for the answer.

About wadding and paper cartridges, I watched your two threads:

The Use of Wadding in 14th to 17th Century Gun Loading
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12290

Mid to Late 16th Century Patrons for Paper Cartridges
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8540


Very interesting!

Thanks a lot, Carlos,

That's exactly what they were meant to be ...
Nobody but me has ever cared about such things.

Best,
Michael