Moro helmet

[digenis]

Google "Man from La Mancha"...

[Sajen]

Here an other example for comparison.

[David]

Originally Posted by digenis

Google "Man from La Mancha"…

I don't really get your point Digenis. The character in some versions of Man of La Mancha might in fact wear a similar shaped helmet since the character is Spanish and these Moro helmets are based on a Spanish form, the Moro having been occupied by the Spanish for so many years. If you mean to suggest that the helmet up for discussion is a stage prop i would think you are way off base.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by digenis

Google "Man from La Mancha"...

How Quixotic of you.


It's the real-deal. However, I can understand how someone with little or no prior exposure to Moro helmets would think that.

[digenis]

I simply stated that the helmet in question looks somewhat theatrical. If the gentlemen commenting on my post took the the time to read what I wrote they would see that I never questioned the authenticity of the item. Nor did I claim any sort of expertise regarding Philippine weapons or armor. However, I stand by my original comment: The helmet is flamboyant and looks very similar to what has been used as a prop. in theatrical productions. That this is an apparently authentic example does not detract from the previous statement of fact.

[David]

Originally Posted by digenis

If the gentlemen commenting on my post took the the time to read what I wrote they would see that I never questioned the authenticity of the item. Nor did I claim any sort of expertise regarding Philippine weapons or armor. However, I stand by my original comment: The helmet is flamboyant and looks very similar to what has been used as a prop. in theatrical productions. That this is an apparently authentic example does not detract from the previous statement of fact.

Disgenis, i have indeed taken the time to read you posts. I then followed up with questions to inquire what you meant by your statements. If you have taken offense that was not my intention, however i don't appreciate your inference that i have not taken the time to read you. I can assure you that as a moderator on these forums i read posts very carefully. But you haven't really written much, have you, so it is not unusual that i might question your meaning.The helmet may look theatrical to you if you have no reference point to historical helmets of the type, either Moro or the European helmets on which they are based. Perhaps someone might recommend some good reading material for you on the subject.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by digenis

I simply stated that the helmet in question looks somewhat theatrical. If the gentlemen commenting on my post took the the time to read what I wrote they would see that I never questioned the authenticity of the item. Nor did I claim any sort of expertise regarding Philippine weapons or armor. However, I stand by my original comment: The helmet is flamboyant and looks very similar to what has been used as a prop. in theatrical productions. That this is an apparently authentic example does not detract from the previous statement of fact.

digenis:

If I offended you, please accept my apologies. I was under the impression you were being playful with your La Mancha reference, and was attempting to be playful in return.

The helmet is no more "theatrical" than the myriad sword-like-objects used in productions like Romeo & Juliet, etc. To the uneducated eye, those props look "real." To the educated eye, they look like props.

Andrew

[Oliver Pinchot]

Here are three Moro armors. The first two should help contextualize the solid brass helmets a bit. The last pic is also brass, but made of mail and brass plates.

[Oliver Pinchot]

I agree with Charles, the earplates appear to hit the helmet when they pivot. I think they were reversed at some point-- it looks like they're only held on by a pin. They might be replacements, too.

[Oliver Pinchot]

This is a very unusual example of earlier Moro armor in a Spanish museum (unspecified, unfortunately.) It follows the lines of a Spanish burgonet and cuirass very closely. Both are made out of kerbau horn, with brass mounts on the helmet. The contrast between the dark, polished horn and burnished brass must have been striking.

[Jim McDougall]

From "Oriental Armour", H. Russell Robinson, 1967, p.124:
"...closer imitation of Spanish armour was achieved in the Moro brass helmets which were frequently cast in sections and joined together by brazing. The burgonet type helmets had the correct hinged cheekpieces, although a little shorter than the European originals, and not joined under the wearers chin".

The overall appearance of this example seems to lean toward the burgonet form rather than the more publicized combed morion seen in illustrations of Spanish conquistadors. The morion had the raised brim on front and back, and typically did not have cheekpieces as far as I have known.

Robinson also notes that although Spanish officers in the 16th century wore the morions aboard the ships apparently and the Moros must have seen many of them, but they did not have as much appeal as the burgonets, which were also present.

Regarding the 'theatrical' comments, I would point out that in many cases these anachronistic forms of armour used in the tribal regalia in many instances may seem quite so, and in many cases may appear humorous so jestful suggestions certainly should be taken as intended.
I can recall cases of studying similarly 'anachronistic' armour being worn by warriors in Bornu and Sudan with mail and helmets which were sometimes adorned with tableware such as forks and spoons. Obviously these could be seen humorously as well, but in the perception of the warriors these were status oriented items of Europeans they had encountered and were worn signifying that.

Oliver, thank you so much for posting this example, as well as the fascinating other examples. I knew little on these and its great to learn more on them!