Moro helmet

CharlesS · 26th September 2014, 01:37 PM

The opposite side of the helmet has some unusual damage, almost like puzzle pieces missing from its comb. I wonder how that type of damage could occur...almost looks like thay were punced out. Perhaps these were weaker areas of the forged brass??

Sajen · 26th September 2014, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

The opposite side of the helmet has some unusual damage, almost like puzzle pieces missing from its comb. I wonder how that type of damage could occur...almost looks like thay were punced out. Perhaps these were weaker areas of the forged brass??

On the first picture you can see two old repairs at the ridge, maybe there has been a similar repair which break out again!?

digenis · 26th September 2014, 02:32 PM

Is it just me or does this helmet have a theatrical look to it?

Andrew · 26th September 2014, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digenis

Is it just me or does this helmet have a theatrical look to it?

It is just you.

Oliver Pinchot · 26th September 2014, 05:17 PM

Oh Andrew, I was going to say that.

Charles, the fractures look that way because the helmet is composed of brass-- although whether it is made up entirely of castings which have then been braised together, or is partially wrought, is not clear from the pics. In short, the fractures run along the boundaries of the microstructures in the metal:

digenis · 26th September 2014, 05:37 PM

Google "Man from La Mancha"...

Sajen · 26th September 2014, 05:46 PM

Here an other example for comparison.

David · 26th September 2014, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digenis

Google "Man from La Mancha"…

I don't really get your point Digenis. The character in some versions of Man of La Mancha might in fact wear a similar shaped helmet since the character is Spanish and these Moro helmets are based on a Spanish form, the Moro having been occupied by the Spanish for so many years. If you mean to suggest that the helmet up for discussion is a stage prop i would think you are way off base.

Andrew · 26th September 2014, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digenis

Google "Man from La Mancha"...

How Quixotic of you.

It's the real-deal. However, I can understand how someone with little or no prior exposure to Moro helmets would think that.

Oliver Pinchot · 26th September 2014, 05:47 PM

Despite its relative friability, I'm inclined to think brass made good helmets, since the Moro arsenal appears to have consisted largely, if not solely, of edged weapons. Had they, in addition, used percussive arms, clubs, maces, etc., this might not have been the case. There are two other known Moro helmet types; these are made of horn panels and brass mail (like the coats) or composed of a large number of pinned horn strips. I think the materials and structure of those fall into line with this argument as well. So, that alarming big hole and crumpling Charles is seeing on the comb of the helmet is a spot where it has been smashed, rather that cut, by something.

Oliver Pinchot · 26th September 2014, 05:51 PM

Incidentally, this is what Charles is referring to:

fernando · 26th September 2014, 05:33 PM

I wouldn't mind concurring with digenis impression.
From a layman's point of view, this example looks much too stylized to be a faithful replica on an actual helmet model of the contextual period... ear protections giving it a 'composite' look and all that

.
... notwithstanding this would be a master work ... as per experts around .

26th September 2014, 05:17 PM	#5
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 464	Oh Andrew, I was going to say that. Charles, the fractures look that way because the helmet is composed of brass-- although whether it is made up entirely of castings which have then been braised together, or is partially wrought, is not clear from the pics. In short, the fractures run along the boundaries of the microstructures in the metal: Attached Images

26th September 2014, 05:46 PM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Here an other example for comparison. Attached Images

26th September 2014, 05:51 PM	#11
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 464	Incidentally, this is what Charles is referring to: Attached Images

26th September 2014, 01:37 PM	#1
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	The opposite side of the helmet has some unusual damage, almost like puzzle pieces missing from its comb. I wonder how that type of damage could occur...almost looks like thay were punced out. Perhaps these were weaker areas of the forged brass??

26th September 2014, 02:32 PM	#3
digenis Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 48	Is it just me or does this helmet have a theatrical look to it?

26th September 2014, 05:37 PM	#6
digenis Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 48	Google "Man from La Mancha"...

26th September 2014, 05:47 PM	#10
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 464	Despite its relative friability, I'm inclined to think brass made good helmets, since the Moro arsenal appears to have consisted largely, if not solely, of edged weapons. Had they, in addition, used percussive arms, clubs, maces, etc., this might not have been the case. There are two other known Moro helmet types; these are made of horn panels and brass mail (like the coats) or composed of a large number of pinned horn strips. I think the materials and structure of those fall into line with this argument as well. So, that alarming big hole and crumpling Charles is seeing on the comb of the helmet is a spot where it has been smashed, rather that cut, by something.

26th September 2014, 05:33 PM	#12
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I wouldn't mind concurring with digenis impression. From a layman's point of view, this example looks much too stylized to be a faithful replica on an actual helmet model of the contextual period... ear protections giving it a 'composite' look and all that . ... notwithstanding this would be a master work ... as per experts around .