Mongol Dogpa knife?

[blue lander]

I think it'll be apparent whether or not it's a fake when I hold it in my hands. If it's a sturdy knife that looks like it wasn't 100% made in a factory in China I'll consider it a keeper.

While we're on the subject of Central Asian knives of this family, I've attached a picture of what are supposedly a Buryat knife and a Yakut knife. Both are from e-bay auctions several months ago that I didn't bid on because I was concerned they were just tourist pieces. The white and silver one is Buryat, the other Yakut.

[Aleksey]

The initial knife is pure Tibetan knife but presumably of XX century.

The ironwork on scabbard is classic for Tibet.

Such knives used as household utensilf (e.g. to slice meat etc.) by Tibetans during the previous century. So even if it dates of 1950-1960th it is not fake.

BTW "dogpa" is not Mongolian word - it is Tibetan by the pronunsiation but spelling seems to be utterly simplified and I can not find the Tibetan original word.

Some Mongolians dwell in Tibet since 1630th - they are named "sog-po" (simplified spelling for convenience) by Tibetans.

[blue lander]

My guess is that the "dogpa" the seller was referring to are the Drokpa people, who are apparently Tibetan nomads.

http://www.iwgia.org/iwgia_files_pub...3-09_tibet.pdf

[Aleksey]

It seems to be true.

"-pa/-ba" in the end of the word means "man". E.g. changpa - the people of chang (plains in the mountain). Peba - people of Lhasa region, etc.

[spiral]

Originally Posted by David

Spiral, this first one is obviously a modern example, but what makes them "fake" in your estimation? It doesn't seem to me that it is pretending to be an antique example. If it is it is doing a very poor job of it.

MMMM I see your point David,

First off it was sold as Mongolian...I think the design is Tibetan?

I also regard them as fake because nearly all like that Ive ever seen whether, on ebay, In Nepal or from Antique dealers are sold as late 19th or early 20th century.

Most are also made in china {as are most tourist kukri in Nepal with coins on the scabbards} Many others are made in Nepal, often by Nepalese.

If there for sale to locals ,{who buy them.} in Tibet that would be a different matter.

But that just my view, others can regard them as modern ethnographics if they so wish...

I am sure a few are Tibetan, but I don't think its many.

I suspect Mongolian ones have never existed?

spiral

[blue lander]

I agree the Mongolian attribution is spurious. Perhaps because the drokpa are also nomads the previous owner thought they were ethnic Mongols.

As to if this thing is real or a Chinese made tourist piece I think it could go either way. On the one hand there's no visible wear and tear on the scabbard and you can still see glue from where the price sticker is attached. On the other hand it looks sturdy enough and it appears to be hand made. Plus, I'd be more suspicious if the seller sold it as a Tibetan or Chinese knife. The drokpa attribution is so specific and obscure that I assume there must be some truth behind the claim.

If it is a fake then I'm impressed with the attention to detail. I once bought a knife that was Native American according to the packaging. The knife itself was a Tibetan dossum with Mongolian writing on the scabbard. It was, of course, made in china.

[Sajen]

I've noticed that I never post pictures from my one how it look now. So here some pictures and a question: what is the sort of "leather", ray skin? Or what I have read somewhere frog skin? Could be lizard skin also. I am unsure about this. Have someone an answer?

Regards,
Detlef