Unusual hanger with translation needed

wolviex · 26th November 2005, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolviex

What do you think about this object. Eastern hanger? I haven't heard about using ones in the East. Import? 18th/19th century fake? Someones eccentricity?

BUMP!

Any other ideas?

Tim Simmons · 26th November 2005, 04:44 PM

Hello wolviex, I am just making a suggestion based on the artistic taste of the wealthy in the 19th century. I think this is a 19cent made for export hunting hanger that has fused two of the popular art styles of the mid to late 19cent that of the exotic and oriental with renaissance revival (note the quillions and pommel). Here are two pictures of products bought by the Victoria & Albert museum London from the Paris Exhibition in 1867. Okay they are not weapons but they do illustrate how extensive this taste was and the range of products made to cater for it. The jug is bronze, the tazza is kuffgoorie work (that's how they have spelt it) steel damascened, with gold. I hope I have been of help. Tim

tom hyle · 26th November 2005, 04:49 PM

This looks far too irregular for industrial cable; hand-wound, and I, too think, probably Turk-related. The form seems Spanish/Euro-Mediterranean?.....Forging flaws, imperfect welds, etc. are not good, of course, but are far from being any sign of modernity (indeed some modern smiths will argue the opposite).
Damascene usually refers to an applied surface pattern; properly one with either inlays and/or overlays. The term is often confused with damascus. It's a can of worms: Due to various confusions the term Damascus steel which certainly refered to wootz/bulat had come in N America to refer to almost any interestingly structured steel, and particularly to what this blade is; pattern-welded steel (a blade from industrial cable would still qualify in this category, but would just be less hand made).
At a guess a Turkish/E Med. Moslem interpretation of a Spainish/Itallian/etc. dagger?..............This may play in with the grip covering/other nonmatching details; not perhaps "wrong" because of time disparityk but geographoic distance?............guesses and thoughts.
Interesting dagger.
Phone wall thing no phnone still

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Tim Simmons · 26th November 2005, 04:59 PM

Tea house opium den caterpillar

wolviex · 27th November 2005, 01:40 PM

Thank you for next suggestions. You might be right, while in 19th century there was a fashion not only for historical objects, which were mostly falsify, but also for strange, oriental arts, while the tourist markets was on increase, I think. This one might be an example of such weapon, on one hand trying to pretend somethink older, on the other one, with oriental blade, to catch the eye.

26th November 2005, 04:44 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Hello wolviex, I am just making a suggestion based on the artistic taste of the wealthy in the 19th century. I think this is a 19cent made for export hunting hanger that has fused two of the popular art styles of the mid to late 19cent that of the exotic and oriental with renaissance revival (note the quillions and pommel). Here are two pictures of products bought by the Victoria & Albert museum London from the Paris Exhibition in 1867. Okay they are not weapons but they do illustrate how extensive this taste was and the range of products made to cater for it. The jug is bronze, the tazza is kuffgoorie work (that's how they have spelt it) steel damascened, with gold. I hope I have been of help. Tim Attached Images

26th November 2005, 04:49 PM	#3
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	This looks far too irregular for industrial cable; hand-wound, and I, too think, probably Turk-related. The form seems Spanish/Euro-Mediterranean?.....Forging flaws, imperfect welds, etc. are not good, of course, but are far from being any sign of modernity (indeed some modern smiths will argue the opposite). Damascene usually refers to an applied surface pattern; properly one with either inlays and/or overlays. The term is often confused with damascus. It's a can of worms: Due to various confusions the term Damascus steel which certainly refered to wootz/bulat had come in N America to refer to almost any interestingly structured steel, and particularly to what this blade is; pattern-welded steel (a blade from industrial cable would still qualify in this category, but would just be less hand made). At a guess a Turkish/E Med. Moslem interpretation of a Spainish/Itallian/etc. dagger?..............This may play in with the grip covering/other nonmatching details; not perhaps "wrong" because of time disparityk but geographoic distance?............guesses and thoughts. Interesting dagger. Phone wall thing no phnone still Tea house tapioca jooint place

26th November 2005, 04:59 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Tea house opium den caterpillar

27th November 2005, 01:40 PM	#5
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Thank you for next suggestions. You might be right, while in 19th century there was a fashion not only for historical objects, which were mostly falsify, but also for strange, oriental arts, while the tourist markets was on increase, I think. This one might be an example of such weapon, on one hand trying to pretend somethink older, on the other one, with oriental blade, to catch the eye.