Highly decorated medieval (?) french two hand mace

[Roland_M]

Thanks for all the answers, makes me really happy.
Here are some macro pictures and a picture of a mace in a german museum from the 16th century. The mace is hard to photograph because of the dark brown patina. Or maybe a very good job in artificially aging. The patina have a similar color like the nakago of my koto-tanto.
My mace have seven flanges, I forgot to mention this.
There are at least 4 of this lines from forging or casting on the handle, they are not straight and unevenly spread. I think it looks like overlapping layers, typical for medieval forging.
The eagle or phoenix heads are all different, 28 different heads, quite time-consuming for casting.
The flanges are separately welded to the handle.
It seems to be a work of the 20th century, made with traditional methods. How do they made such a wonderful patina job? I have a little experience in etching pattern welded blade steel and this was no acid. I am astonished, that modern blacksmiths can make such good jobs after traditional methods.
A nice detail, gently beaten with wood the flanges produce a wonderful bright and pervading sound. The best sound of a weapon I ever heared, including many movies.

Best wishes Roland

p.s.: I am from Germany and i hope, my English is good enough for the standard here. I give the best I can.

[cornelistromp]

Thanks for the clear pictures!
Iam sorry but no matter how much you want to believe it, it is sure to be a later reproduction and not an original mace.
the faint lines and very low quality of the fleur de lis in your pictures clearly show that it is a casting and no chiselling in relief.
The mace from the berlinerzeughaus inv. nr4453 you posted, is of a totally different category, high quality carving and etching and non comparable to the coarse casting/workmanship of your mace.

hereby also attached some pictures how a 16th-century mace should look.

Best,

[Matchlock]

Hi Roland and Jasper,


I am nor sure about your respective opinions.

Attached please find images showing details of the finest known carved wrought-iron barrel of its kind, Brescia, ca. 1525-1530, and is of top quality manufacture.
I is most probably a masterpiece, and is preserved in optimum original condition, with the carving in high relief.
The finely grained ground the latter still retains its original blackened surface for contrast.

This item reprents exactly the same Italian style as the contemporary maces.
Preserved in The Michael Trömner Collection.


I'd like you to comment on this.



For contemporary Italian arquebus barrels wrought and carved in the same style please, cf. my threads

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlock+arquebus


http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlock+arquebus

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...lock+harquebus

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...lock+harquebus



Best,
Michael

Photos copyrighted by Michael Trömner.

[AHorsa]

Dear Michael,

the barrel you show is a very nice one. Thanks for sharing. But in my eyes there is a large difference between your piece and the mace. If you compare your pictures to the detailed ones of the mace, the "carvings" of the latter one are more vague and also there is this seam with its little misregistration, which in my sense clearly speaks for a cast iron product.

Best regards,
Andreas

[Shakethetrees]

Michael,

Everything on your barrel is either chiseled or chased by hand, one tap of the hammer at a time.

The mace in question is cast, possibly using an old piece as a pattern, but no chiseling or chasing went into its production, with the exception of quickly finishing off flashings or spruces left over from casting.

The deep parts of a design that were tooled will usually be smooth, with the exception of places where a background texture is applied with a matting tool, as in pebbled backgrounds on your barrel. Linear designs should not have roughness in the troughs. A casting will always leave some roughness here.

[cornelistromp]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

I am nor sure about your respective opinions.
This item reprents exactly the same Italian style as the contemporary maces

it is not the same Italian style nor technique!
Actually these are two completely different techniques and incomparable
At your barrel example material around the figures is chislelled away by hand , this is the so-called embossing technique.
At the shaft of the mace just the line around the fleur de lis is removed, so called engraving technique, however not done by chiselling but by casting.

I expect you meant a style and technique similar to the foliage decoration on the maces in the pictures, which is completely different as a casting.


best,
jasper

[Matchlock]

Hi fellows,


You're right, of course, no doubt about that!

I fully agree with your statements that the item in question is a cast-iron 19th c. decorative reproduction. The etchings are done primitvely as well. I don't thik they are etched at all.


It's just that, at the moment, I lack the time to go into details.
So all I wanted to show was the ample bandwith of early 16th c. ornamental patterns.

For comparison, I have just authored a new thread that will provide you with tons of genuine Italian iron carvings on barrels and maces from the 1520's to ca. 1540.

Please see
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18904


Enjoy,
and best es ever,
Michael