St. Peter's Dagger

[Battara]

I would love to own a dagger like this, especially with this type of fluting and blade chiseling.

Not to be obtuse, but is this a European dagger or a Middle Eastern dagger (looking at the hilt)?

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Battara

I would love to own a dagger like this, especially with this type of fluting and blade chiseling.

Not to be obtuse, but is this a European dagger or a Middle Eastern dagger (looking at the hilt)?

st. peter came from the middle east. more specifically, syria. as most people travelled armed in those days, especially in the far provinces of the empire, i'd guess he obtained his dagger in palestine or syria before he journeyed to rome as an old man. at least if we believe it was his. for interest, judas was thought to have been a sicarii (dagger man).

reminds me a bit of a roman utility knife:

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Battara

I would love to own a dagger like this, especially with this type of fluting and blade chiseling.

Not to be obtuse, but is this a European dagger or a Middle Eastern dagger (looking at the hilt)?

The sica referred to a somewhat larger, curved or angled knife of the ancient Illyrians, Thracians, and Dacians--basically those living in what is now Romania, Serbia, Croatia, and environs. The Romans considered it a "foreign" weapon, although similar forms were found in Roman use (e.g., by gladiators). In its smaller form it had a nasty reputation for being a concealed weapon of assassins (of whom the Jewish sacarii of the first century CE were a noted example).

In its historical context a sica would be classed as a European weapon.

Ian.

[kronckew]

in st. peter's time, dacia was still unconquered territory, the sica was a known form tho from illyrica and thrace and the term was used for assasin's daggers and the assassins themselves, ie. the sicarii of palestine who would have used their own local dagger forms which may or may not have resembled a true sica. recurved and sickle form knives were used thru-out the empire. to us pedants, the term is specific to thrace/dacia/illyria, to a roman in the middle east, the dagger made down the road in antioch by abdul the blacksmith was a generic 'sica' - they likely also had more specific names. ie. 'pugio' for the roman army wasp waisted side-arm. if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, it's a duck. even if it's made in china.

reminds me of the 'falcata' a name made up by us collectors a century or so ago that would not have been recognised by the people who originally used them.

quack. i still like pete's knife. whatever we call it.

[A. G. Maisey]

The name of this dagger is "St. Peter's Dagger"

It is attributed to the 14th century.

The St. Peter who has custody of the Keys and who decides the ones that ride the down escalator reportedly left this earth sometime around 60AD.

With these other-worldly people we can never be really sure if they did move on when they supposedly did, or whether they decided to hang around for another thirteen hundred years or so --- anything is possible in the world of belief --- but in the case of this dagger I would suggest that we regard the name as only a name.

[drac2k]

Peter the Apostle (later St. Peter), had a sword , which he wielded during the arrest of Jesus , cutting off the ear of the High Priest's Servant. This sword supposedly hangs in the Pozan Archdiocesan Museum in West Central Poland ; it looks nothing like the shown example.
In a pure state of conjecture, could it have belonged to Peter the Hermit, who helped rally the common people to go on the 1st Crusade in 1096(of course most of them were killed or sold into slavery).He gathered his faithful, mostly from France and Germany, traveled to the Holy Land, asked the King of Constantinople for reinforcements and supplies,and preached a sermon on the Mount of the Olives before the City of Jerusalem was successfully stormed.I mentioned the Constantinople connection, because the dagger looks very Byzantine(or how I would imagine), to me.
I further stretch my hypothesis by stating that after several years in the Holy Land, Peter the Hermit returned to France and established a Monastery in Neufmoustier ;surely this made him Saintly to someone.

[Jim McDougall]

Since this is what appears to be a masterfully crafted dagger from Italy and probably 16th century, is it not possible that this might be a votive relic commemorating St Peter of Verona, who was a Dominican I believe, but was assassinated in around 1252, thus 13th century.
He was an inquisitor during the Albigensian crusades in France and was murdered by Cathars, and iconographic images of him show an axe imbedded in his head and a dagger to the chest, hence the dagger is sometimes symbolically referenced to him.

The Italian (North Italy) dagger in the central blade motif carries as noted what I perceive as Ottoman motif and resembles similar style seen on many edged weapons in India (Mughals) and other Central Asian regions. The rosette in the center resembles varying floral forms in this manner popular as motif in Italian edged weapons in the 16th c and later.
The hilt again resembles certain Ottoman and Central Asian form which seems to have diffused widely as well into areas farther east.

The very interesting discussion on St Peter (the Apostle) some 12 centuries earlier, refers to his sword, which was termed the Malchus sword, and votive examples of this exist in several cases in religious holdings, one I believe in Poland. Naturally while they are regarded as genuinely the actual weapon, there are notable disputes regarding the exact true nature of the weapon used in this event.

[Ian]

Given the Venetian connection with its location in St. Mark's Cathedral, could this knife be celebrating the works of St. Peter Orseolo? The man rose through a military career to become Doge of Venice, rebuilt St. Mark's at his own expense, then chucked it all in for the life of a monk. His life considerably predates this knife, however.

"Peter Orseolo, of Rivo Alto, Italy, served as commander of the Venetian navy before becoming Doge of Venice in 976. In this office he rebuilt the fire-ravaged Saint Mark’s Cathedral, funding the work from his own wealth. From Constantinople he obtained for the cathedral’s high altar what is considered the earliest known example of a gold altar cloth. He also founded a hospice for pilgrims. But after governing for only two years, Peter suddenly disappeared from the city during the night of September 1-2, 978. He fled his prestigious station to devote the rest of his life to God, traveling over five hundred miles westward to enter the Benedictine monastery of Cuxa, at the foot of the eastern Pyrenees, along the French-Spanish border. As he neared the monastery, Peter took off his shoes and walked the remaining steps of the journey bare-footed. As a monk, he excelled in humility, devotion to prayer, charity, and self-denial. Thereafter, Peter’s zeal for even greater perfection prompted him to obtain permission to live in solitude a short distance from the monastery." (see http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=5620)

Ian.