Stating FACTS - Cultural and Forum 'Politics' - or POLICIES!

dana_w · 19th June 2014, 03:42 PM

I am also glad to see this topic back up for discussion. Matchlock makes some great points. Ignorance, apathy, and political correctness are a big problem for people who love history and historical weapons, especially firearms.

This article was published in the UK’s Telegraph in 2000. It details the problems Keith Neal’s daughter had in finding a place to exhibit her late father's remarkable collection of historic firearms.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...treasures.html

cornelistromp · 19th June 2014, 04:11 PM

The right to form an opinion and to be able to express yourself, are prerequisites for a democratic society, any democratic society so also this forum.
The freedom to have opinions, freely Exercising the mind and free speech can bring injustice to light and gives everyone the freedom to be critical and to interfere in all kind of discussions.
An independent, diverse and free press is an essential prerequisite.
In my country the Netherlands, it was agreed that the government should not control Censorship! everything can be said as long as there is no harm done to a person or group of persons.

I have absolutely nothing (in common) with Johnny Cash and Kris Kristofferson but love antique weapons in every appearance.

This forum vikingsword.com should, as long as it's about antique arms, allow every debate.

best,
Jasper

Jim McDougall · 19th June 2014, 05:43 PM

I am as keen as anyone here on the pursuit of knowledge and the study on antique weaponry and of course very much resent the progressive attitude toward them in academic, institutional and governmental circumstances. However while agreeing fully with openness in discussion concerning them here, I think it is important to avoid activism oriented commentary and impassioned rallying in these discussions.

While we all must be aware of matters which involve policies and legal changes which directly effect the course of collecting and shipment of arms etc. as well as policy issues with many institutions , it is entirely counter productive to promote or incite reaction or response. It is an objective matter collectively here....what we do in response is a private matter.

It is well understood that everyone here is fully capable of what approach and which channels are appropriate in order to effectively respond to these circumstances, and do not require provocative commentary or rallying.

While we are all aware as well in the unfortunate issues with which Michael has been faced, and all agree in that he is one of our forums extremely valuable assets and I am sure we all would gladly do whatever we can to help.

I would suggest and ask everyone here to please keep our attention to these matters on focus and constructive, and avoid impassioned exemplars such as tragic events and the like.

Lee · 19th June 2014, 11:41 PM

I should like to suggest a political action community such as avaaz.org with its community petition platform as a more appropriate venue for some of what has been going on here of late.

'Historic Firearms and mankind...' is under review as it is likely permissible in the new Ethnographic Miscellanea forum, but we need to develop a consensus among the moderator team.

For now, caution is suggested to members about where they take this 'protest thread.'

batjka · 20th June 2014, 12:51 AM

I am glad the thread got reopened. Sometimes you just can't separate life and politics, one affects the other. However, to condemn a whole class of historic objects is beyond ridiculous.

After all, what is a gun? Just a pipe with a touch hole. A 2nd grader can make one in about 5 minutes, as long as a plumbing supply is nearby. Same with powder - charcoal can be easily made. Saltpeter, too - some manure and urine mixed together, a bit of time and voila! Do these politicians think they can really stop this? The genie is out of the bottle.

But Michael's collection is not mere killing instruments - they are feats of human civilization. They don't just belong to him - they belong to humanity. And trying to outlaw or banish them will only lead to barbarity as people will stop admiring and learning from history. And then they will turn to making killing machines out of plumbing pipe.

Spiridonov · 21st June 2014, 09:32 PM

Hello, Michael! My Dear Friend. The situation which You described is absolutely awful. My wife and I were shocked by what we have learned about your situation. We are fully on your side. I think that the topic should be on the page

Matchlock · 22nd June 2014, 07:47 PM

My dear friends,

I am deeply moved by the great solidarity, courage and strength you have shown supporting me both privately and publically!

Not only have your posts, emails and phone calls proven me right - I also consider them to be the finest reward ever for what I have been trying to do here since 2008.

Thank you all from the bottom of my heart!
You definitely make my work worthwhile.

I am extremely happy to say that some influential museum curators and experts are on my side as well, backing up my struggle against the authorities by assessments on the unparalleled importance of The Michael Trömner Collection!

********************

Please do not hesitate to PM or email me whenever seing yourself confronted with a query that you think might be covered by my range of expertise!

Thanks again,
and best as ever,

Michael/Michl
Michael Trömner

19th June 2014, 03:42 PM	#1
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 436	I am also glad to see this topic back up for discussion. Matchlock makes some great points. Ignorance, apathy, and political correctness are a big problem for people who love history and historical weapons, especially firearms. This article was published in the UK’s Telegraph in 2000. It details the problems Keith Neal’s daughter had in finding a place to exhibit her late father's remarkable collection of historic firearms. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...treasures.html Last edited by dana_w; 19th June 2014 at 07:54 PM.

19th June 2014, 04:11 PM	#2
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	The right to form an opinion and to be able to express yourself, are prerequisites for a democratic society, any democratic society so also this forum. The freedom to have opinions, freely Exercising the mind and free speech can bring injustice to light and gives everyone the freedom to be critical and to interfere in all kind of discussions. An independent, diverse and free press is an essential prerequisite. In my country the Netherlands, it was agreed that the government should not control Censorship! everything can be said as long as there is no harm done to a person or group of persons. I have absolutely nothing (in common) with Johnny Cash and Kris Kristofferson but love antique weapons in every appearance. This forum vikingsword.com should, as long as it's about antique arms, allow every debate. best, Jasper Last edited by cornelistromp; 20th June 2014 at 11:22 AM.

19th June 2014, 11:41 PM	#4
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 937	Caution is Suggested I should like to suggest a political action community such as avaaz.org with its community petition platform as a more appropriate venue for some of what has been going on here of late. 'Historic Firearms and mankind...' is under review as it is likely permissible in the new Ethnographic Miscellanea forum, but we need to develop a consensus among the moderator team. For now, caution is suggested to members about where they take this 'protest thread.'

19th June 2014, 05:43 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	I am as keen as anyone here on the pursuit of knowledge and the study on antique weaponry and of course very much resent the progressive attitude toward them in academic, institutional and governmental circumstances. However while agreeing fully with openness in discussion concerning them here, I think it is important to avoid activism oriented commentary and impassioned rallying in these discussions. While we all must be aware of matters which involve policies and legal changes which directly effect the course of collecting and shipment of arms etc. as well as policy issues with many institutions , it is entirely counter productive to promote or incite reaction or response. It is an objective matter collectively here....what we do in response is a private matter. It is well understood that everyone here is fully capable of what approach and which channels are appropriate in order to effectively respond to these circumstances, and do not require provocative commentary or rallying. While we are all aware as well in the unfortunate issues with which Michael has been faced, and all agree in that he is one of our forums extremely valuable assets and I am sure we all would gladly do whatever we can to help. I would suggest and ask everyone here to please keep our attention to these matters on focus and constructive, and avoid impassioned exemplars such as tragic events and the like.

20th June 2014, 12:51 AM	#5
batjka Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 39	I am glad the thread got reopened. Sometimes you just can't separate life and politics, one affects the other. However, to condemn a whole class of historic objects is beyond ridiculous. After all, what is a gun? Just a pipe with a touch hole. A 2nd grader can make one in about 5 minutes, as long as a plumbing supply is nearby. Same with powder - charcoal can be easily made. Saltpeter, too - some manure and urine mixed together, a bit of time and voila! Do these politicians think they can really stop this? The genie is out of the bottle. But Michael's collection is not mere killing instruments - they are feats of human civilization. They don't just belong to him - they belong to humanity. And trying to outlaw or banish them will only lead to barbarity as people will stop admiring and learning from history. And then they will turn to making killing machines out of plumbing pipe.

21st June 2014, 09:32 PM	#6
Spiridonov Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Russia, Leningrad Posts: 355	Hello, Michael! My Dear Friend. The situation which You described is absolutely awful. My wife and I were shocked by what we have learned about your situation. We are fully on your side. I think that the topic should be on the page

22nd June 2014, 07:47 PM	#7
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	My dear friends, I am deeply moved by the great solidarity, courage and strength you have shown supporting me both privately and publically! Not only have your posts, emails and phone calls proven me right - I also consider them to be the finest reward ever for what I have been trying to do here since 2008. Thank you all from the bottom of my heart! You definitely make my work worthwhile. I am extremely happy to say that some influential museum curators and experts are on my side as well, backing up my struggle against the authorities by assessments on the unparalleled importance of The Michael Trömner Collection! ******************** Please do not hesitate to PM or email me whenever seing yourself confronted with a query that you think might be covered by my range of expertise! Thanks again, and best as ever, Michael/Michl Michael Trömner