Provenance and wood type of sampir keris

DAHenkel · 5th January 2005, 10:20 AM

Hmm, very interesting Rasdan. Your sampir appears to be some other kind of wood rather than kemuning - possibly bongor but I'm not 100% sure. Its a very unusual grain for Kemuning but it would also be extremely rare to use bongor for a sampir. Its normally used for batangs but wood taken from the root area might be suitable for sampir. I shall have to show these pictures to Nik Dee to get his opinion.

rahman · 5th January 2005, 12:51 PM

Mr Henkel... I'm a newcomer to this excellent forum, and a babe in the woods when it comes to keris. Might I ask for your kind instruction on how one might differentiate the sampir here as "Pattani style. Definintely not any kind of Bugis, Sulawesi, Straits or otherwise."?

I was told Pattani sheaths have a distinct Sari Bulan shape. These sheaths, without their ridges, are normally seen as Bugis (against Riau, with ridges).

Thanks.

DAHenkel · 5th January 2005, 02:18 PM

First off, welcome to the forum Encik Rahman.

Actually, the "square-ish" sheath form is virtually ubiquitous across much of the "Malay" world. In fact it is easy to say such sheaths are the most typical Malay keris sheath. On the Peninsula they are normally referred to as a sampir tebeng or sampir Bugis and they probably do have their origins in Sulawesi. However over time the form has spread and today is found in all manner of variant forms and styles. Often it is not particularly easy to differentiate between them.

Pattani and Kelantan keris share many characteristics with each other and are often difficult to tell apart. Both have tebeng sheaths that are only slightly different at base and sometimes are more or less indistinguishable. As a general rule though the Kelantanese tebeng tend to be somewhat more "boxy" and "massive" while Pattani sheaths tend to be slightly less so.

Both Kelantan and Pattani also have the saribulan sheath form.

I'd strongly recommend that you spend some time searching and reading through the posts on this forum as there are many pictures and lots of info.

rahman · 6th January 2005, 02:21 AM

Thank you Mr Henkel for the explanation. Indeed, I have spent the last 2 months going through the past forums to get a fast-track on the keris world. The discussions have been most enlightening.

The squarish sampir presents a real challenge to identify its origin in these parts. I guess it takes an expert eye like yours to tell the subtle differences. I've seen sampirs with ridges at their top (mainly from the sumatra/Riau area) and others with no ridges (mainly from Sulawesi/Bugis). The Malay keris still eludes me, though, and I count you among the foremost experts here.

Thanks again.

rasdan · 6th January 2005, 07:49 AM

All this while i thought it is kemuning. But it is lighter than kemuning despite of the grains. Hope to hear from Dave soon about the type of wood.

Alam Shah · 30th June 2005, 03:52 PM

Rasdan,
Your sampir is Ketengga wood. I've seen bongor wood, the grain is not like yours. It is normally used for batang (as mentioned by Dave).

Bongor wood have a different type of "tiger stripes" pattern.
(Click the underlined Bongor for an example).

(Note: Bongor wood is the one we've seen at your place).

30th June 2005, 03:52 PM	#6
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Wood type... Rasdan, Your sampir is Ketengga wood. I've seen bongor wood, the grain is not like yours. It is normally used for batang (as mentioned by Dave). Bongor wood have a different type of "tiger stripes" pattern. (Click the underlined Bongor for an example). (Note: Bongor wood is the one we've seen at your place).

5th January 2005, 10:20 AM	#1
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	Hmm, very interesting Rasdan. Your sampir appears to be some other kind of wood rather than kemuning - possibly bongor but I'm not 100% sure. Its a very unusual grain for Kemuning but it would also be extremely rare to use bongor for a sampir. Its normally used for batangs but wood taken from the root area might be suitable for sampir. I shall have to show these pictures to Nik Dee to get his opinion.

5th January 2005, 12:51 PM	#2
rahman Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 84	Mr Henkel... I'm a newcomer to this excellent forum, and a babe in the woods when it comes to keris. Might I ask for your kind instruction on how one might differentiate the sampir here as "Pattani style. Definintely not any kind of Bugis, Sulawesi, Straits or otherwise."? I was told Pattani sheaths have a distinct Sari Bulan shape. These sheaths, without their ridges, are normally seen as Bugis (against Riau, with ridges). Thanks.

5th January 2005, 02:18 PM	#3
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	First off, welcome to the forum Encik Rahman. Actually, the "square-ish" sheath form is virtually ubiquitous across much of the "Malay" world. In fact it is easy to say such sheaths are the most typical Malay keris sheath. On the Peninsula they are normally referred to as a sampir tebeng or sampir Bugis and they probably do have their origins in Sulawesi. However over time the form has spread and today is found in all manner of variant forms and styles. Often it is not particularly easy to differentiate between them. Pattani and Kelantan keris share many characteristics with each other and are often difficult to tell apart. Both have tebeng sheaths that are only slightly different at base and sometimes are more or less indistinguishable. As a general rule though the Kelantanese tebeng tend to be somewhat more "boxy" and "massive" while Pattani sheaths tend to be slightly less so. Both Kelantan and Pattani also have the saribulan sheath form. I'd strongly recommend that you spend some time searching and reading through the posts on this forum as there are many pictures and lots of info.

6th January 2005, 02:21 AM	#4
rahman Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 84	Thank you Mr Henkel for the explanation. Indeed, I have spent the last 2 months going through the past forums to get a fast-track on the keris world. The discussions have been most enlightening. The squarish sampir presents a real challenge to identify its origin in these parts. I guess it takes an expert eye like yours to tell the subtle differences. I've seen sampirs with ridges at their top (mainly from the sumatra/Riau area) and others with no ridges (mainly from Sulawesi/Bugis). The Malay keris still eludes me, though, and I count you among the foremost experts here. Thanks again.

6th January 2005, 07:49 AM	#5
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	All this while i thought it is kemuning. But it is lighter than kemuning despite of the grains. Hope to hear from Dave soon about the type of wood.