Palembang handle and selut

kai · 6th June 2014, 10:28 AM

Hello Jean,

How large is this hilt?

The selut is Minang. The hilt doesn't look like Palembang to me.

Actually, I feel that the Palembang carving is pretty deep, especially if you consider the very narrow crevices cut into the material. I believe Ganja was referring to the kinda 2-dimensional appearance of the "crowded" Palembang carving while the Minang carving gives a more 3-dimensional effect due to more material being cut away between the floral and other elements. Also the overall shape tends to be more rigid/blocky in Palembang JD hilts while Minang and others show more rounded shapes.

Regards,
Kai

Jean · 6th June 2014, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Jean,

How large is this hilt?

The selut is Minang. The hilt doesn't look like Palembang to me.

Actually, I feel that the Palembang carving is pretty deep, especially if you consider the very narrow crevices cut into the material. I believe Ganja was referring to the kinda 2-dimensional appearance of the "crowded" Palembang carving while the Minang carving gives a more 3-dimensional effect due to more material being cut away between the floral and other elements. Also the overall shape tends to be more rigid/blocky in Palembang JD hilts while Minang and others show more rounded shapes.

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,
This hilt is very small (6 cm high). I agree that this piece is probably not from Palembang but from where then? The selut was not original to the piece.
Thank you and regards
Jean

T. Koch · 11th January 2015, 09:12 AM

Hi guys!

I'm late to the table here - found the topic while going through the Palembang-posts of the forum. IMO Detlef is probably spot-on: The insert has been done to cover up the natural pulp cavity of the tooth. I have a Madurese "Donoriko" hilt from sperm whale in my collection, with the tooth mounted upside down, so that the cavity is sutuated right at the crown of the hilt. To accomodate this, a seperate piece has been carved with okir and set into the cavity with small ivory pins.

I think this was done, because keris hilts typically are wider at the top and the tooth of course wider at the base.

Detlef, I would say that your's is probably carved from hippopotamus tusk: The pulp cavity in sperm whale teeth is, in my experience, "always" lenticular in shape. Your's is half-moon shaped, like that of hippo tusk and it seems in your last picture, that the TIZ continues over the figure's left ear and down his shoulder?

Great pieces both of them btw!!

Best wishes, - Thor

Sajen · 11th January 2015, 11:28 AM

Hello Thor,

thank you for confirming my guess!

Frankly said I was a little bit surprised that nobody before took it in consideration that this will be the reason.

Thank you also for the hint that the material of my hilt could be from hippotamus ivory, good observation!

Best regards,
Detlef

Battara · 15th January 2015, 03:31 AM

Coming the party late as well, I was thinking of the stones on top. I agree probably covering for the hippo core hole, I noticed that they are "milky" quartz. This is common in Indonesia, but would there also be a talismanic or spiritual meaning behind the use of this type of stone?

A. G. Maisey · 15th January 2015, 08:02 PM

I do not know the answer to this question, however, I have a finger ring that is set with white chalcedony.

According to several Balinese people this white stone is protection against danger.

In Jawa turquoise has the talismanic value of distancing one from danger.

Jade will protect against broken bones if you happen to fall.

Agates have varying talismanic qualities depending on the type of agate and the natural motif.

David · 15th January 2015, 11:17 PM

I think it is a fair bet that certain precious and semi-precious stones have talismanic and spiritual properties in just about ANY culture around the world so i would image that some thought is always put into it when they are employed in such a manner.

6th June 2014, 10:28 AM	#1
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Jean, How large is this hilt? The selut is Minang. The hilt doesn't look like Palembang to me. Actually, I feel that the Palembang carving is pretty deep, especially if you consider the very narrow crevices cut into the material. I believe Ganja was referring to the kinda 2-dimensional appearance of the "crowded" Palembang carving while the Minang carving gives a more 3-dimensional effect due to more material being cut away between the floral and other elements. Also the overall shape tends to be more rigid/blocky in Palembang JD hilts while Minang and others show more rounded shapes. Regards, Kai

11th January 2015, 09:12 AM	#3
T. Koch Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Mother North Posts: 189	Hi guys! I'm late to the table here - found the topic while going through the Palembang-posts of the forum. IMO Detlef is probably spot-on: The insert has been done to cover up the natural pulp cavity of the tooth. I have a Madurese "Donoriko" hilt from sperm whale in my collection, with the tooth mounted upside down, so that the cavity is sutuated right at the crown of the hilt. To accomodate this, a seperate piece has been carved with okir and set into the cavity with small ivory pins. I think this was done, because keris hilts typically are wider at the top and the tooth of course wider at the base. Detlef, I would say that your's is probably carved from hippopotamus tusk: The pulp cavity in sperm whale teeth is, in my experience, "always" lenticular in shape. Your's is half-moon shaped, like that of hippo tusk and it seems in your last picture, that the TIZ continues over the figure's left ear and down his shoulder? Great pieces both of them btw!! Best wishes, - Thor

11th January 2015, 11:28 AM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,213	Hello Thor, thank you for confirming my guess! Frankly said I was a little bit surprised that nobody before took it in consideration that this will be the reason. Thank you also for the hint that the material of my hilt could be from hippotamus ivory, good observation! Best regards, Detlef

15th January 2015, 03:31 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Coming the party late as well, I was thinking of the stones on top. I agree probably covering for the hippo core hole, I noticed that they are "milky" quartz. This is common in Indonesia, but would there also be a talismanic or spiritual meaning behind the use of this type of stone?

15th January 2015, 08:02 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	I do not know the answer to this question, however, I have a finger ring that is set with white chalcedony. According to several Balinese people this white stone is protection against danger. In Jawa turquoise has the talismanic value of distancing one from danger. Jade will protect against broken bones if you happen to fall. Agates have varying talismanic qualities depending on the type of agate and the natural motif.

15th January 2015, 11:17 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	I think it is a fair bet that certain precious and semi-precious stones have talismanic and spiritual properties in just about ANY culture around the world so i would image that some thought is always put into it when they are employed in such a manner.