Luzon bolo (itak?) for comment

Sajen · 3rd June 2014, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Oh I would think that it is Tagalog based on the blade shape.

Thank you very much for confirming my guess!

Do you would agree also about the ricasso, i.e. that this is only found by old blades?

Regards,
Detlef

Battara · 8th June 2014, 08:14 AM

I will hesitantly say yes, so far. However, I would need to look at some WWII examples to be sure.

Sajen · 8th June 2014, 10:45 AM

Thank you Jose. This one: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=itak Spunjer sold some time ago (nice one, see it to late and was sold already) is a later one, still have this form of ricasso but not distinct anymore.
I think that Robert have seen and handled much more Tagalog itak, would be interested what he think about this theory.

Regards,
Detlef

Robert · 8th June 2014, 10:29 PM

Hello Detlef, I was just getting ready to make a comment on your very nice new addition to your collection when I read your last remarks about the file work on the ricasso. I have to admit that I am a little hesitant to agree that this is only seen on older examples of these bolos as I have seen some that were purportedly of WWII manufacture with these markings as well as others supposedly brought back from the Spanish American and Moro wars that did not. What you suggest might very well prove to be true, but more examples that have verifiable provenance would be very helpful in proving your theory. I do however think that these marking were more prevalent on the older examples than on the later ones but as to why I cannot give you a definate answer. It could have been the extra cost to the owner, or that (like many other things) they just went out of style and slowly started to disappear altogether. Anyway, my congratulations to you on your new addition.

Best,
Robert

Sajen · 8th June 2014, 10:49 PM

Hello Robert,

thank you for comment!

Now, when you mentioned it, there are also older blades without this ricasso and file work.

So you are correct that this can't be a sign of age. BTW, there are also Visayan blades with similar worked ricasso.

Regards,
Detlef

Ian · 2nd July 2014, 12:11 PM

Sajen:

This is my first post in several years--illness and work have kept me sidelined and away from this board, but I hope to be back here more frequently.

Nice knife. I think a more precise term for this knife might be Luzon matulis (matulis = "pointed") rather than the more general term of itak which simply means bolo or knife. I'm not a Tagalog native speaker, but that's what I've gleaned over the years from people who are.

As to the age of this knife, that's hard to say. Certainly it was a style of knife used by the katipuneros during the uprising against Spain in the late 19th C, and is still being made today. Where it was made on Luzon is even harder to say--could be within the area from Ilocos norte down to Batangas.

As for the vertical marks at the forte, I'm afraid they are not helpful in determining age.

Ian.

Battara · 2nd July 2014, 04:31 PM

WELCOME BACK IAN!

Glad you are back with us. Been too long.

I'm curious, what indicates this may be Ilokano?

Sajen · 2nd July 2014, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Sajen:

This is my first post in several years--illness and work have kept me sidelined and away from this board, but I hope to be back here more frequently.

Nice knife. I think a more precise term for this knife might be Luzon matulis (matulis = "pointed") rather than the more general term of itak which simply means bolo or knife. I'm not a Tagalog native speaker, but that's what I've gleaned over the years from people who are.

As to the age of this knife, that's hard to say. Certainly it was a style of knife used by the katipuneros during the uprising against Spain in the late 19th C, and is still being made today. Where it was made on Luzon is even harder to say--could be within the area from Ilocos norte down to Batangas.

As for the vertical marks at the forte, I'm afraid they are not helpful in determining age.

Ian.

Welcome back on board Ian!

Hope that your health is good again.

Thank you for your thoughts about this blade; I would call it sword instead of knife, the length is 24 inch, the blade is nearly 1/2 inch thick near the handle.
When I understand you correct it would be called matulis when it is a Tagalog blade. But wouldn't it be called different when it is a Ilocano or a Batangas sword?

Regards,
Detlef

David · 2nd July 2014, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

This is my first post in several years--

Great to see you are back Ian!

2nd July 2014, 12:11 PM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,522	Luzon matulis Sajen: This is my first post in several years--illness and work have kept me sidelined and away from this board, but I hope to be back here more frequently. Nice knife. I think a more precise term for this knife might be Luzon matulis (matulis = "pointed") rather than the more general term of itak which simply means bolo or knife. I'm not a Tagalog native speaker, but that's what I've gleaned over the years from people who are. As to the age of this knife, that's hard to say. Certainly it was a style of knife used by the katipuneros during the uprising against Spain in the late 19th C, and is still being made today. Where it was made on Luzon is even harder to say--could be within the area from Ilocos norte down to Batangas. As for the vertical marks at the forte, I'm afraid they are not helpful in determining age. Ian.

8th June 2014, 08:14 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,345	I will hesitantly say yes, so far. However, I would need to look at some WWII examples to be sure.

8th June 2014, 10:45 AM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,416	Thank you Jose. This one: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=itak Spunjer sold some time ago (nice one, see it to late and was sold already) is a later one, still have this form of ricasso but not distinct anymore. I think that Robert have seen and handled much more Tagalog itak, would be interested what he think about this theory. Regards, Detlef

8th June 2014, 10:29 PM	#4
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Detlef, I was just getting ready to make a comment on your very nice new addition to your collection when I read your last remarks about the file work on the ricasso. I have to admit that I am a little hesitant to agree that this is only seen on older examples of these bolos as I have seen some that were purportedly of WWII manufacture with these markings as well as others supposedly brought back from the Spanish American and Moro wars that did not. What you suggest might very well prove to be true, but more examples that have verifiable provenance would be very helpful in proving your theory. I do however think that these marking were more prevalent on the older examples than on the later ones but as to why I cannot give you a definate answer. It could have been the extra cost to the owner, or that (like many other things) they just went out of style and slowly started to disappear altogether. Anyway, my congratulations to you on your new addition. Best, Robert

8th June 2014, 10:49 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,416	Hello Robert, thank you for comment! Now, when you mentioned it, there are also older blades without this ricasso and file work. So you are correct that this can't be a sign of age. BTW, there are also Visayan blades with similar worked ricasso. Regards, Detlef

2nd July 2014, 04:31 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,345	WELCOME BACK IAN! Glad you are back with us. Been too long. I'm curious, what indicates this may be Ilokano?