British Hanger like a model 1751

Kmaddock · 30th May 2014, 09:30 AM

Hi Jim/Norman,
Thanks for your interest and knowledge.
I knew absolutley nothing about this sword when i purchased it.
I have Robinson's book and recogonised it as a hanger and took a punt at the sword, 1788 and 1796 LC are more my main collecting area so i decided to try and get an earlier sword.

I have attached the photos the auctioneer sent on to me so you can see it was in a rough enough shape but I taught it might be decent enough under all the obvious rust.

Jim, the guard is heart shaped like M M1741's and M1751's but the all steel handguard as you note is a little different. Cleaning is now finished so the platina is safe, it looks a bit red in the photos but in the hand, I am happy I have all the active rust removed

A sword I am happy to have and at a very reasonable price, i think, my wife might differ.
Best regards to all
Ken

Jim McDougall · 30th May 2014, 04:03 PM

I'm with you Ken.......British cavalry swords are among the most intriguing forms (have you gotten Richard Dellar's new book yet?) and the M1788 and M1796 are most interesting as the first unofficial and official 'patterns'.

Absolutely superb job of conserving this very attractive British hanger, and this does seem a good example of a variation which was probably fashioned in England around the 1740s. It is tempting to think of it possibly as a prototype for the two branch form recognized as the 'M1751', but in those times independent makers of course deviated considerably. This was of course more likely for hilts fashioned from iron as opposed obviously to the cast brass hilts which predominated these hangers.

As noted, the still somewhat discernible 'fox' marking was used by Samuel Harvey and it seems typically his initials were incorporated into the mark. In this case, though the initials I presume are not visible, it still seems I can see the brushier tail characteristic of the English versions of the 'running wolf'.

An excellent acquisition Ken! and astutely recognized despite its rough condition. While many of these kinds of hangers were so widely produced and many of almost munitions category, this one is far 'off the beaten path' and is tempting to consider it was possibly an officers.

Kmaddock · 30th May 2014, 04:37 PM

Hi Jim
Thanks for putting the Officer idea in my head!
Brass was a lot more expensive than steel in those days though so I would have imagined the Officer would have gone for a bit of "Bling" I suppose we will never know.
The sword is nice to hold in the hand but very tight with the guard wrapping around the knuckles.
I was thinking about Normans sword and the bars removed, I wonder is it a later adaptation as peoples hands got bigger as nutrition improved and removing the guard was the only way to keep these types of sword servicable, especially with a gloved hand.

Richard Dellar's book is on my wish list but another one of my areas of interest is WWI and before imperial German/Austrian empire bayonets and I am finding a few of the very elusive ones of these coming up for sale.
But a good book will pay its way back so a decision will have to be made.
Best regards,
Ken

30th May 2014, 09:30 AM	#1
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 543	Hi Jim/Norman, Thanks for your interest and knowledge. I knew absolutley nothing about this sword when i purchased it. I have Robinson's book and recogonised it as a hanger and took a punt at the sword, 1788 and 1796 LC are more my main collecting area so i decided to try and get an earlier sword. I have attached the photos the auctioneer sent on to me so you can see it was in a rough enough shape but I taught it might be decent enough under all the obvious rust. Jim, the guard is heart shaped like M M1741's and M1751's but the all steel handguard as you note is a little different. Cleaning is now finished so the platina is safe, it looks a bit red in the photos but in the hand, I am happy I have all the active rust removed A sword I am happy to have and at a very reasonable price, i think, my wife might differ. Best regards to all Ken Attached Images

30th May 2014, 04:03 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,597	I'm with you Ken.......British cavalry swords are among the most intriguing forms (have you gotten Richard Dellar's new book yet?) and the M1788 and M1796 are most interesting as the first unofficial and official 'patterns'. Absolutely superb job of conserving this very attractive British hanger, and this does seem a good example of a variation which was probably fashioned in England around the 1740s. It is tempting to think of it possibly as a prototype for the two branch form recognized as the 'M1751', but in those times independent makers of course deviated considerably. This was of course more likely for hilts fashioned from iron as opposed obviously to the cast brass hilts which predominated these hangers. As noted, the still somewhat discernible 'fox' marking was used by Samuel Harvey and it seems typically his initials were incorporated into the mark. In this case, though the initials I presume are not visible, it still seems I can see the brushier tail characteristic of the English versions of the 'running wolf'. An excellent acquisition Ken! and astutely recognized despite its rough condition. While many of these kinds of hangers were so widely produced and many of almost munitions category, this one is far 'off the beaten path' and is tempting to consider it was possibly an officers.

30th May 2014, 04:37 PM	#3
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 543	Hi Jim Thanks for putting the Officer idea in my head! Brass was a lot more expensive than steel in those days though so I would have imagined the Officer would have gone for a bit of "Bling" I suppose we will never know. The sword is nice to hold in the hand but very tight with the guard wrapping around the knuckles. I was thinking about Normans sword and the bars removed, I wonder is it a later adaptation as peoples hands got bigger as nutrition improved and removing the guard was the only way to keep these types of sword servicable, especially with a gloved hand. Richard Dellar's book is on my wish list but another one of my areas of interest is WWI and before imperial German/Austrian empire bayonets and I am finding a few of the very elusive ones of these coming up for sale. But a good book will pay its way back so a decision will have to be made. Best regards, Ken