Words and bids

TVV · 18th November 2005, 01:40 AM

Ariel's last question is great and I will be looking forward to its answer.
Overall, the sword types used in the Balkans in the period from the 16th to the beggining of the 19th century exhibit a huge variety due to the geographical situation and history of the region. Here are some swords in the collection of a friend, which have been found in Bulgaria, and yet in terms of their hilts (and blades) they are not so typical of the Balkans. There are accidental travellers, especially on the Balkans. Any comments on the swords I posted are welcome.

Andrew · 18th November 2005, 01:52 AM

Hi Teodor. Cool swords.

Quick question: are the bird-head pommels common? Characteristic of any particular culture/region?

TVV · 18th November 2005, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Hi Teodor. Cool swords.

Quick question: are the bird-head pommels common? Characteristic of any particular culture/region?

It could be, yet it is the only one I have seen on a sword of this type. I think there was a theory that the karabela pommel is actually a stylized eagle head, and eagles appear on the coats of arms of both Poland and Russia. Honestly, I really do not know what the significance of this pommel could be.

ariel · 18th November 2005, 04:41 AM

The second and the fourth in Teodore's exhitit are what's called typical Polish-Hungarian swords. The first and the third can be whatever you wish: Persian, Turkish, Polish, Hungarian, Croatian etc.
Turks significantly influenced Hungary and Poles had very close relations with the Persians in their mutual animosity toward the Turks. Complete geopolitical mess but a very fertile ground for the exchange of weapon types.

Miyamoto · 18th November 2005, 09:07 AM

That sword on picture from the book, is a Kraishnik sword wich was rehilted in Slovenia, by locals, presumably for use in the 1713 uprising. That hilt is verry Slovenian, subalpine region (central europe). I saw a lot hilts like that on daggers, knifes and tools. At the time it was verry common rehilting military (mainly turkish) swords, with a more ergonomical and less appariscent type of hilt and less appariscent scabbard. Such swords were used by smugglers, outlaws, rebelliants, rokovniachs...

The blade exibits two, not verry pronounced fullers on both sides.

Kraishink is a term depicting people of Serb nationality who settled in the infamous Voina Kraina, 500 years ago wit the help of Charles, Archduke of Vienna (the one who established Lipizzaner horses also) for the purpose of defending the austrian teritory against turkish incursions. That probed to be a good solution 'cos Serbs hated turks almost genetically and Austrians formed a strong defensive barrier by settling Serbs there. That Voina Kraina probed to be verry strong also in modern times, as the main reason for the war in the nineties between kraishnik Serbs and autochtone Croats.

The last sword Teodor posted is a hungarian, known as the Krutz sword. It is probalby the from late 17th or early 18th century. That type of sword was used by hugaric warriors allied with the Ottomans. They called themnselfs as crusaders against the Vienna court and attacked Vienna toghether with the Turks in the year 1683. They obviously retreated together with the Turks, and uprised again in the year 1701, under the lead of Ferenc Rakoczy. There are a coupple of verry similar swords in the Sloveninan national museum. I can post a picture if you like.

What exactly is a yelman?

Another question... Am I still the only one seeing the strong sommiliance between the two blades on ebay, eftis and ashoka?

18th November 2005, 01:40 AM	#1
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Ariel's last question is great and I will be looking forward to its answer. Overall, the sword types used in the Balkans in the period from the 16th to the beggining of the 19th century exhibit a huge variety due to the geographical situation and history of the region. Here are some swords in the collection of a friend, which have been found in Bulgaria, and yet in terms of their hilts (and blades) they are not so typical of the Balkans. There are accidental travellers, especially on the Balkans. Any comments on the swords I posted are welcome. Attached Images

18th November 2005, 09:07 AM	#5
Miyamoto Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 44	That sword on picture from the book, is a Kraishnik sword wich was rehilted in Slovenia, by locals, presumably for use in the 1713 uprising. That hilt is verry Slovenian, subalpine region (central europe). I saw a lot hilts like that on daggers, knifes and tools. At the time it was verry common rehilting military (mainly turkish) swords, with a more ergonomical and less appariscent type of hilt and less appariscent scabbard. Such swords were used by smugglers, outlaws, rebelliants, rokovniachs... The blade exibits two, not verry pronounced fullers on both sides. Kraishink is a term depicting people of Serb nationality who settled in the infamous Voina Kraina, 500 years ago wit the help of Charles, Archduke of Vienna (the one who established Lipizzaner horses also) for the purpose of defending the austrian teritory against turkish incursions. That probed to be a good solution 'cos Serbs hated turks almost genetically and Austrians formed a strong defensive barrier by settling Serbs there. That Voina Kraina probed to be verry strong also in modern times, as the main reason for the war in the nineties between kraishnik Serbs and autochtone Croats. The last sword Teodor posted is a hungarian, known as the Krutz sword. It is probalby the from late 17th or early 18th century. That type of sword was used by hugaric warriors allied with the Ottomans. They called themnselfs as crusaders against the Vienna court and attacked Vienna toghether with the Turks in the year 1683. They obviously retreated together with the Turks, and uprised again in the year 1701, under the lead of Ferenc Rakoczy. There are a coupple of verry similar swords in the Sloveninan national museum. I can post a picture if you like. What exactly is a yelman? Another question... Am I still the only one seeing the strong sommiliance between the two blades on ebay, eftis and ashoka? Last edited by Miyamoto; 18th November 2005 at 05:37 PM.

18th November 2005, 01:52 AM	#2
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Hi Teodor. Cool swords. Quick question: are the bird-head pommels common? Characteristic of any particular culture/region?

18th November 2005, 04:41 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The second and the fourth in Teodore's exhitit are what's called typical Polish-Hungarian swords. The first and the third can be whatever you wish: Persian, Turkish, Polish, Hungarian, Croatian etc. Turks significantly influenced Hungary and Poles had very close relations with the Persians in their mutual animosity toward the Turks. Complete geopolitical mess but a very fertile ground for the exchange of weapon types.