A French officer's fighting sword-comments please

fernando · 23rd May 2014, 11:26 AM

Hi Capitão

In googling the net on GARDE TOURNANTE, i find inumerous entries; would it be a question of different browsers ?
Most or all those entries are from French sites, one assuring that the garde tournante is a French exclusive version ... for what is worth, Jim.
Also from what i read, this type of sword equiped various branches... Volunteers and Gendarmerie in the least. I saw one with the lion pommel, said to be from an officer of the Volunteers, in which units they were obliged to commission their swords, therefore having great liberty to order multiple variations. This would explain the many different examples we see out there; after all, a practice often observed in many other cases/countries in the period. During the (French) Revolution numerous Volunteer units were formed to reinforce the regular army from the 'Ancient Regime'. This said example is reputed to have belonged to an officer in the Overseas Provinces.
The example i saw with an iron guard is said to be from the Gendarmerie.
Officers and sub-Officers are mentioned as being these swords owners, never soldiers ... again for what is worth.
Here is another one with an impecable grip wiring.

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fernando · 23rd May 2014, 08:26 PM

And i've got news for you, Capitão ... although a bit surprising.
It seems as this type of sabre has also equiped the French Navy.
I have spotted the example in the pictures attached, mentioned by the owner as a Navy example, being the same as the one figuring in the work L' OUVRAGE "LES SABRES PORTES PAR L' ARMEE FRANCAISE" DE JEAN LHOSTE ET PATRICK RESEK , page 265 picture 475.
With a 77 cms. blade, this is a most most atypical sword, as its guard is in iron.
Go figure; a navy sabre with an iron guard.

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M ELEY · 24th May 2014, 12:48 AM

Iron sword?!!! Say it isn't so!

Actually, iron swords were still popular during the time period, but usually of the cutlass variety and they were blackened with paint (or tar!) to prevent rusting. Prior to the popularity of brass hilts, iron hilted hangers and hunting cuttoes were quite popular with officers. I'm just happy to see once again the variations of this pattern and the documentation of naval usage. 'Nando, you were right about searching under 'garde tournante'! Pulls up all manner of information. Interesting that there are few sites outside of the French pages covering this type of sword (our Forum one of the scant few). I understand it being a French sword with said interests on those sites, but if one searches for shiavonna, for instance, you don't have to go to Italian pages!! Thanks again, Jim and Fernando, for your input and especially the pics! Iron sword, indeed!

fernando · 24th May 2014, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

... I understand it being a French sword with said interests on those sites, but if one searches for shiavonna, for instance, you don't have to go to Italian pages!!...

Well, while charismatic swords like schiavonas became an international affair, garde tournantes stayed a domestic issue

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23rd May 2014, 11:26 AM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Capitão In googling the net on GARDE TOURNANTE, i find inumerous entries; would it be a question of different browsers ? Most or all those entries are from French sites, one assuring that the garde tournante is a French exclusive version ... for what is worth, Jim. Also from what i read, this type of sword equiped various branches... Volunteers and Gendarmerie in the least. I saw one with the lion pommel, said to be from an officer of the Volunteers, in which units they were obliged to commission their swords, therefore having great liberty to order multiple variations. This would explain the many different examples we see out there; after all, a practice often observed in many other cases/countries in the period. During the (French) Revolution numerous Volunteer units were formed to reinforce the regular army from the 'Ancient Regime'. This said example is reputed to have belonged to an officer in the Overseas Provinces. The example i saw with an iron guard is said to be from the Gendarmerie. Officers and sub-Officers are mentioned as being these swords owners, never soldiers ... again for what is worth. Here is another one with an impecable grip wiring. . Attached Images

23rd May 2014, 08:26 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	And i've got news for you, Capitão ... although a bit surprising. It seems as this type of sabre has also equiped the French Navy. I have spotted the example in the pictures attached, mentioned by the owner as a Navy example, being the same as the one figuring in the work L' OUVRAGE "LES SABRES PORTES PAR L' ARMEE FRANCAISE" DE JEAN LHOSTE ET PATRICK RESEK , page 265 picture 475. With a 77 cms. blade, this is a most most atypical sword, as its guard is in iron. Go figure; a navy sabre with an iron guard. . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 24th May 2014 at 12:40 PM. Reason: spell

24th May 2014, 12:48 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,165	Iron sword?!!! Say it isn't so! Actually, iron swords were still popular during the time period, but usually of the cutlass variety and they were blackened with paint (or tar!) to prevent rusting. Prior to the popularity of brass hilts, iron hilted hangers and hunting cuttoes were quite popular with officers. I'm just happy to see once again the variations of this pattern and the documentation of naval usage. 'Nando, you were right about searching under 'garde tournante'! Pulls up all manner of information. Interesting that there are few sites outside of the French pages covering this type of sword (our Forum one of the scant few). I understand it being a French sword with said interests on those sites, but if one searches for shiavonna, for instance, you don't have to go to Italian pages!! Thanks again, Jim and Fernando, for your input and especially the pics! Iron sword, indeed!