Turkish knife

[Tim Simmons]

That certainly looks like a trench knife made from a bayonet. Looks great and I bet you would have to work very hard to get another one. I am not really a reader of WW1 history but I am unaware of Turkish trenches other than Gallipoli/Dardinelles as far as I know the other Ottoman fronts were on open land. A nice buy. Tim

[Rich]

I would agree, trench "art". I find the iconography of the cresent and six
pointed star (star of David ???) an interesting juxtaposition, if that's what
they are.

Rich S

[erlikhan]

Never have seen something like this. I dont have knowledge about bayonets enough to identify the models of the spare parts, it can be a trench knife but..even if I ignore the Chinese?? looking strange guard (it is circular,not?)which is totally unrelated to Turkish, the existence of 6 pointed star is a real problem. 6 p star has been used in a different form as something magical, but never as a national symbol as far as i know. The flag was 8 pointed in early times, and 5 pointed in the last centuries with nuances in the design. No Turk or any other Moslem around here would think of changing the star with a 6 pointed one when creating a hand made item in 19 or 20th centuries when this item was crafted. Too absurd. I think this item is not long ago created to sell or even if it is old, the crescent -star is mounted to give the item an identity and to increase price later by someone whose history knowledge is not perfect.

[ariel]

Erlikhan,
Very astute observation!
It looks to me that the blade is a tip of a saber (Bayonets are mostly straight, this blade is curved. Yes, I know some bayos are curved but I am talking probabilities here), while the scabbard and the handle were made out of the original scabbard.There are even traces of soldering on both. The decorations were added as an afterthought.
In short, somebody took an old and broken saber and made this dagger. May be trench art, may be bored home-grown Assadullah. The bottom line, this thing can do the job!

[TVV]

Sword is possible, but bayonet is not less likely. If you take a close look at the scabbard mouth of this piece, it looks like the brass mouth of a bayonet scabbard: you know, the leather bayonet scabbards with brass mountings. And if the trench art theory is correct, the rest could have been made from a brass shell. The crescent and the star appear inconsistent with the rest of the knife, and I think Erlikhan is right in believing that someone added them later in an attempt to enhance the value of the piece, which is an all too common phenomenon with unknowledgeable traders of militaria. Of course, we will never really know who made this knife and for what purpose, but to me at least it seems well suited to be a trench dagger.

[not2sharp]

That scabbard is very odd for a bayonet. Most bayonets scabbards have studs or strap bars by which they are attached to their frogs; but, this thing has a ring, which would lead me to believe that it was intended to be suspended as a sword rather then worn directly on the belt. More likely trench art made from an old sword and a shell casing.

n2s

[Freddy]

Thanks for all the input, guys

Erlikhan is right as to the six pointed star. In my hometown, there are many Turkish people and I never noticed that the star on their flag was five pointed. I examined the piece again and yes... the moon and star were added (soldered ?) to the grip.

I also looked at some books concerning bayonets and the closest thing I could find which had some resemblance to the point of my knife was the blade of a French 1842 sabre-bayonet. It could also be made from the French 1866 sabre-bayonet 'Chassepot' which had a similar blade.





Here are some additional pictures of my piece :

[TVV]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

That certainly looks like a trench knife made from a bayonet. Looks great and I bet you would have to work very hard to get another one. I am not really a reader of WW1 history but I am unaware of Turkish trenches other than Gallipoli/Dardinelles as far as I know the other Ottoman fronts were on open land. A nice buy. Tim

There were Turkish Trenches in Balkan War, even before WW1, and then during WW1 there were Ottoman troops in Romania...
Perhaps identifying the bayonet thatw as converted to the knife will provide more clues? I wonder what Erlikhan would have to say about this one, but to me it looks as the tip of a yataghan shaped bayonet, perhaps a Peabody-Martini one?