An Overview on The Modern Arabian Saif

[Iain]

Great post! Regarding the newly made blades, are the forged locally? Made from available steel scrap and heat treated? Or imported from another region like India?

From an outside perspective it seems like these swords are often remounted, which can be frustrating for the collector who might like to acquire one with mounts the same age as the blade. Are any parts of the mounts typically recycled? Perhaps guards?

I'm sure I'll have more questions as you continue to share information on the topic!

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Iain

Great post! Regarding the newly made blades, are the forged locally? Made from available steel scrap and heat treated? Or imported from another region like India?

From an outside perspective it seems like these swords are often remounted, which can be frustrating for the collector who might like to acquire one with mounts the same age as the blade. Are any parts of the mounts typically recycled? Perhaps guards?

I'm sure I'll have more questions as you continue to share information on the topic!

Hey Iain,

The blades come from many sources but a good number of swords coming out of Bahrain (mainly) are locally made with professional skill. Other blades like pattern welded ones are imported from India, mainly to Qatar as Bahrainis make their own pattern welded blades. A swordmaker in Qatar works with Syrian bladesmiths who moved to Lebanon due to the war. Also heard of blades coming from Brazil but often seen as very poor quality.

The swordmakers also do restorations and often they perserve the old parts depending on the order of the customer. Although I find some of their restorations to be way too invading as some simply do not have a concept or understanding on perserving old items.

There are some occasion where wootz quillons and scabbard mounts are perserved but generally they would be cleaned, etched and put on scabbards that are made to look like the old ones.

[Richard G]

Thank you for these pictures,
To be honest, if it were not for the provenance, I would have suspected the first two swords of being chinese versions of a Gulf saif. I am sure you will disagree with me but, it seems almost as if the originator is now imitating the imitator!.
Regards
Richard

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Richard G

Thank you for these pictures,
To be honest, if it were not for the provenance, I would have suspected the first two swords of being chinese versions of a Gulf saif. I am sure you will disagree with me but, it seems almost as if the originator is now imitating the imitator!.
Regards
Richard

that is very true, Richard! these are mediocre quality swords, their better ones look much better and I will make a publication about it very soon. They copy Chinese, Indian and even Russian concepts in their decoration and you see some interesting results (some is just too gaudy though)

Lotfy

[Sancar]

Does any of Arabian swordmakers work with crucible steel in the region? Does anyone try to make crucşble steel or at least forge it into blades?

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Sancar

Does any of Arabian swordmakers work with crucible steel in the region? Does anyone try to make crucşble steel or at least forge it into blades?

There is some info going around that a Bahraini blade smith makes wootz. I saw some picts, it looks similar abit to crystalline wootz.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Hey Iain,

The blades come from many sources but a good number of swords coming out of Bahrain (mainly) are locally made with professional skill. Other blades like pattern welded ones are imported from India, mainly to Qatar as Bahrainis make their own pattern welded blades. A swordmaker in Qatar works with Syrian bladesmiths who moved to Lebanon due to the war. Also heard of blades coming from Brazil but often seen as very poor quality.

I'm mainly interested in the techniques used, stock removal or actual forging?

The swordmakers also do restorations and often they perserve the old parts depending on the order of the customer. Although I find some of their restorations to be way too invading as some simply do not have a concept or understanding on perserving old items.

There are some occasion where wootz quillons and scabbard mounts are perserved but generally they would be cleaned, etched and put on scabbards that are made to look like the old ones.

Good to hear some parts are preserved, I have to admit I find the tendency to put entirely new fittings on old blades a bit off putting. I would have imagined (perhaps in ignorance) that it would be possible to simply replace the perishable organic elements such as leather and wood, while preserving all the original steel or precious metal elements.

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Iain

I'm mainly interested in the techniques used, stock removal or actual forging?



Good to hear some parts are preserved, I have to admit I find the tendency to put entirely new fittings on old blades a bit off putting. I would have imagined (perhaps in ignorance) that it would be possible to simply replace the perishable organic elements such as leather and wood, while preserving all the original steel or precious metal elements.

Hey Iain,

Both exist. The more mass produced swords are stock removal but some are forged sometimes to customers specification.

As for putting new mounts on old blades... you will get depressed if you see what happens down there. I saw some gorgeous swords, in completely good mounts that are removed and redressed. At first this upsets me alot, but then I thought that its simply a continuation of an old tradition. Blades unlike other parts of the sword, are prestigious and treasured... and often seen as the most important part.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Hey Iain,

Both exist. The more mass produced swords are stock removal but some are forged sometimes to customers specification.

As for putting new mounts on old blades... you will get depressed if you see what happens down there. I saw some gorgeous swords, in completely good mounts that are removed and redressed. At first this upsets me alot, but then I thought that its simply a continuation of an old tradition. Blades unlike other parts of the sword, are prestigious and treasured... and often seen as the most important part.

I understand the tradition aspect, what pains me a bit is the obvious drop in quality, with good, if a bit tattered older elements being changed out for flashy, but lower quality new pieces. Still, it's good the culture of swords survives.

Also good to hear a few legitimate smiths survive. Are there any "castes" or societal factors around who does this kind of work?

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Iain

I understand the tradition aspect, what pains me a bit is the obvious drop in quality, with good, if a bit tattered older elements being changed out for flashy, but lower quality new pieces. Still, it's good the culture of swords survives.

Also good to hear a few legitimate smiths survive. Are there any "castes" or societal factors around who does this kind of work?

Good question, Iain. Sorry for the late reply, you know how distracted I am lately.

Well, I noticed that in both Bahrain and Qatar, the oldest and most well known smiths and swordmakers are Shiite, who are generally not members of tribes. Although they arent treated differently, hopefully :-)

[Iain]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Good question, Iain. Sorry for the late reply, you know how distracted I am lately.

Well, I noticed that in both Bahrain and Qatar, the oldest and most well known smiths and swordmakers are Shiite, who are generally not members of tribes. Although they arent treated differently, hopefully :-)

Interesting, does this have anything to do with the large blade industry and many imports from Persia historically?