US Ban in Ivory - Not all bad news

David · 3rd April 2014, 04:35 AM

That's not a bad idea José…and i think we all can agree that the senseless slaughter of elephants for their ivory needs to stop.

drac2k · 5th April 2014, 04:24 AM

The U.S. ban on ivory is only the first step;" Federal agents ,art experts, and museum curators," raided the home of a 91 year old collector in Indiana and seized the collection that he had acquired over 8 decades.The man has not been charged, but the "experts," are determining what items should be given back to the "Indian tribes, Russians, Chinese, Etc.."
Need I say more ?

spiral · 5th April 2014, 10:09 AM

Heres an article about it Drac2k... explains the recent background of the action taken against Amateur archaeologists/dealers/collectors of American cultural artefacts.

spiral

linky

drac2k · 5th April 2014, 11:31 AM

Thanks for posting the link;whereas it might "explain," the actions it does not justify them.What tribe does a Paleolithic or Neolithic point belong to ?

Tim Simmons · 5th April 2014, 01:17 PM

Soft targets are easy to hit, meek and in general law abiding. Actions like this miss the point. Just like most crime the real criminals ,big players, like tax dodgers ect still carry on making big gains. Like you take cash for a small job fixing somebodies dripping tap "occasionally but keep good books" where as Mr Big in the city hides away many thousands. Who are they going to give his collection back too????? do they have any real idea????

spiral · 5th April 2014, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drac2k

Thanks for posting the link;whereas it might "explain," the actions it does not justify them.What tribe does a Paleolithic or Neolithic point belong to ?

That's why I used the word explain, not justify.

In the UK most items belong to who owns the land its found on unless its Gold. Then the state can claim it & give you the amount they decide its worth. {usually a lot less than it would be on an open market.}

By the way, I have some mostly English Paleolithic,mesolithic & Neolithic artefacts myself.

Spiral

drac2k · 5th April 2014, 05:52 PM

As I duly noted.
Probably you don't have a big Jute or Pict lobby contesting ownership of those items. In this country we have many politically active Indian tribes who believe that anything pointy, knapped from stone belongs to them, even though it might have been there 10,000 years before they settled in the area.
Recently the treasure of a wrecked Spanish galleon, plundered from South America, found off the coast of North America, was taken from the salvage company who discovered it and returned to Spain by a U.S. court.

spiral · 5th April 2014, 08:19 PM

O dear, that sounds a silly as some of our court cases.... They don't give up anything of great value to other country's here though. {Unless theres an ulterior political motive of course.}

The one line information bulletins are fascinating, rather like newspaper headlines, I generally prefer more information before coming to a knee jerk, bandwagon jumping decision though.

Interestingly The currant land owners in the UK, were not the people who owned the land 2000 years ago even... {They were all Roman.

}

But sadly for the last few hundred years possibly a thousand in some cases the same few families still own the majority of the land in the UK.

And there not descended from the stone age tribesmen who made them...{DNA shows them {The indiginous stone age peoples}. to be related to poorest local communities here still.}

For Instance...

spiral

3rd April 2014, 04:35 AM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	That's not a bad idea José…and i think we all can agree that the senseless slaughter of elephants for their ivory needs to stop.

5th April 2014, 04:24 AM	#2
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,255	The U.S. ban on ivory is only the first step;" Federal agents ,art experts, and museum curators," raided the home of a 91 year old collector in Indiana and seized the collection that he had acquired over 8 decades.The man has not been charged, but the "experts," are determining what items should be given back to the "Indian tribes, Russians, Chinese, Etc.." Need I say more ?

5th April 2014, 10:09 AM	#3
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Heres an article about it Drac2k... explains the recent background of the action taken against Amateur archaeologists/dealers/collectors of American cultural artefacts. spiral linky

5th April 2014, 11:31 AM	#4
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,255	Thanks for posting the link;whereas it might "explain," the actions it does not justify them.What tribe does a Paleolithic or Neolithic point belong to ?

5th April 2014, 01:17 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,844	Soft targets are easy to hit, meek and in general law abiding. Actions like this miss the point. Just like most crime the real criminals ,big players, like tax dodgers ect still carry on making big gains. Like you take cash for a small job fixing somebodies dripping tap "occasionally but keep good books" where as Mr Big in the city hides away many thousands. Who are they going to give his collection back too????? do they have any real idea????

5th April 2014, 05:52 PM	#7
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,255	As I duly noted. Probably you don't have a big Jute or Pict lobby contesting ownership of those items. In this country we have many politically active Indian tribes who believe that anything pointy, knapped from stone belongs to them, even though it might have been there 10,000 years before they settled in the area. Recently the treasure of a wrecked Spanish galleon, plundered from South America, found off the coast of North America, was taken from the salvage company who discovered it and returned to Spain by a U.S. court.

5th April 2014, 08:19 PM	#8
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	O dear, that sounds a silly as some of our court cases.... They don't give up anything of great value to other country's here though. {Unless theres an ulterior political motive of course.} The one line information bulletins are fascinating, rather like newspaper headlines, I generally prefer more information before coming to a knee jerk, bandwagon jumping decision though. Interestingly The currant land owners in the UK, were not the people who owned the land 2000 years ago even... {They were all Roman. } But sadly for the last few hundred years possibly a thousand in some cases the same few families still own the majority of the land in the UK. And there not descended from the stone age tribesmen who made them...{DNA shows them {The indiginous stone age peoples}. to be related to poorest local communities here still.} For Instance... spiral