Incendiary quarrels/arrows/crossbow bolts

Marcus den toom · 23rd March 2014, 09:07 PM

This area is even more clear, some parts of the fabric is red...
Maybe these qouites where made of reused fabric? Or is there a substance which would be used on such an item that would turn this fabric red?

Andi · 23rd March 2014, 10:07 PM

Hello Marcus ten toom! Thank you for this phantastic images. Where you have taken them?
Regarding the red fabric I think that most probably the fabric was taken from worn garments. There is absolutely no need to weave a fabric especially for the quoits. In former times fabrics had a much higher value compared to modern times, especially when no automatic machines were available for fibre processing, spinning, weaving, dyeing and sewing. From archaeological excavations many examples for reused worn garments are present such as toilet papers, fillings of blind building structures, relic packings and decoration, textile appliqué on newer garments, caulk material for ships and so on.. - But what makes me wonder is the red colour. In former times dyeing linen in red colour was very difficult, this could be affordable by an aristocratic, clerical or noble elite.
But the red colour as result of a chemical process with the incendiary matters would be an interesting question.

Matchlock · 23rd March 2014, 10:23 PM

Hi Andi and Marcus,

You are right, for making items like quoits old garments were frequently employed. The qouits in my collection though consist of braided willow rods wrapped in white linen.
In the Landeszeughaus Graz there are many trapezoid powder and priming flasks of ca. 1540-60 the wooden bodies of which are covered with fabric from Late Gothic chasubles (see attachments).

m

Marcus den toom · 24th March 2014, 01:20 PM

Hi Andi and Michael,

Thank you both for your answer, the reusing of fabric seemed the most likely to me as well, only the fact it was red seemed odd.

Well Andi, this great collection can be found in the Netherlands at castle "Toom" :P (not really a castle, but just my own room).

I wonder how they came by those Gothic chasubles, maybe at the church flea market???

Andi · 31st March 2014, 05:59 PM

Last Thursday i have been at Museum Veste Coburg in northern Bavaria and had a long and very interesting conversation with the museums director Dr Alfred Geibig who gives me some valuable hints. The red colour of the fabric in Marcus den tooms qouites can be a result of a chemical reaction of mercury and sulfur forming cinnabar compounds. Cinnabar is a bright red pigment which was often used in arts. Many early authors of fireworks books and works on blackpowder were recommending the addition of metals such as mercury to powder mixtures. According to modern chemical knowledge the mercury as no positive effect on the powders brisance and its use was maybe based on a spiritual background according to early alchemy.

Marcus den toom · 2nd April 2014, 07:12 PM

Hi Andi,

Thank you for this information, i think that your story might be more applicable to my qouites. Though the reusing of fabric is a know fact, it seems unlikely to use a expensive dye on a crude fabric as those on my qouites...

Also, such a expensive piece of coloured fabric would likely be reused on something else than pitch drenched wreaths

Andi · 4th April 2014, 10:59 PM

Hello Marcus

Is the textile braid on this image visible by an damage of the quoits surface or was it brought outside by intention - probably as a ligting fuse/match? As far as I understood the publications of Dr. Alfred Geibig no quoits were known so far where a lighting match was visible on the outside.

Do you know where your - very nice - quoits were originating from?

23rd March 2014, 10:23 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Andi and Marcus, You are right, for making items like quoits old garments were frequently employed. The qouits in my collection though consist of braided willow rods wrapped in white linen. In the Landeszeughaus Graz there are many trapezoid powder and priming flasks of ca. 1540-60 the wooden bodies of which are covered with fabric from Late Gothic chasubles (see attachments). m Attached Images

23rd March 2014, 09:07 PM	#1
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 535	This area is even more clear, some parts of the fabric is red... Maybe these qouites where made of reused fabric? Or is there a substance which would be used on such an item that would turn this fabric red?

23rd March 2014, 10:07 PM	#2
Andi Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Halstenbek, Germany Posts: 203	Hello Marcus ten toom! Thank you for this phantastic images. Where you have taken them? Regarding the red fabric I think that most probably the fabric was taken from worn garments. There is absolutely no need to weave a fabric especially for the quoits. In former times fabrics had a much higher value compared to modern times, especially when no automatic machines were available for fibre processing, spinning, weaving, dyeing and sewing. From archaeological excavations many examples for reused worn garments are present such as toilet papers, fillings of blind building structures, relic packings and decoration, textile appliqué on newer garments, caulk material for ships and so on.. - But what makes me wonder is the red colour. In former times dyeing linen in red colour was very difficult, this could be affordable by an aristocratic, clerical or noble elite. But the red colour as result of a chemical process with the incendiary matters would be an interesting question.

24th March 2014, 01:20 PM	#4
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 535	Hi Andi and Michael, Thank you both for your answer, the reusing of fabric seemed the most likely to me as well, only the fact it was red seemed odd. Well Andi, this great collection can be found in the Netherlands at castle "Toom" :P (not really a castle, but just my own room). I wonder how they came by those Gothic chasubles, maybe at the church flea market???

31st March 2014, 05:59 PM	#5
Andi Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Halstenbek, Germany Posts: 203	Last Thursday i have been at Museum Veste Coburg in northern Bavaria and had a long and very interesting conversation with the museums director Dr Alfred Geibig who gives me some valuable hints. The red colour of the fabric in Marcus den tooms qouites can be a result of a chemical reaction of mercury and sulfur forming cinnabar compounds. Cinnabar is a bright red pigment which was often used in arts. Many early authors of fireworks books and works on blackpowder were recommending the addition of metals such as mercury to powder mixtures. According to modern chemical knowledge the mercury as no positive effect on the powders brisance and its use was maybe based on a spiritual background according to early alchemy.

2nd April 2014, 07:12 PM	#6
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 535	Hi Andi, Thank you for this information, i think that your story might be more applicable to my qouites. Though the reusing of fabric is a know fact, it seems unlikely to use a expensive dye on a crude fabric as those on my qouites... Also, such a expensive piece of coloured fabric would likely be reused on something else than pitch drenched wreaths

4th April 2014, 10:59 PM	#7
Andi Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Halstenbek, Germany Posts: 203	Hello Marcus Is the textile braid on this image visible by an damage of the quoits surface or was it brought outside by intention - probably as a ligting fuse/match? As far as I understood the publications of Dr. Alfred Geibig no quoits were known so far where a lighting match was visible on the outside. Do you know where your - very nice - quoits were originating from?