![]() |
|
![]() |
|
Thread Tools
![]() |
Search this Thread
![]() |
Display Modes
![]() |
|
![]() |
#1 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 535
|
![]()
edited.
Last edited by Marcus den toom; 16th March 2014 at 07:57 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
![]()
Further sources of period artwork attached:
- Melchior Feselen, Ingolstadt, Upper Bavaria, painting of The Battle of Alesia, dated 1533, depicting arquebusiers with matchlock arquebuses, two of them carrying a bandelier with small metal powder measures - Erhard Schön, Nuremberg, woodcut of ca. 1535: arquebusier with a bandelier and another with a small, round priming flask - a Swiss arquebusier, ca. 1530, with a bandelier with metal powder measures; Kantonsbibl. Appenzell, Johann v. Schwarzenberg, CM ms 13, fol. 54r Finally attached are a few more items the early style of which assigns them to the 16th century. The last one, from the collection of D. José Estruch y Cumella, features a spacious, threefold leather pouch that certainly contained other items than just lead balls as well, e.g. cleaning tools, wadding etc. Last edited by Matchlock; 16th March 2014 at 10:02 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
![]()
Here are three bandeliers, each featuring an additional flask with a nozzle for priming powder.
The first bandelier is in my collection; it unites eight wooden powder measures painted with red and green lacquer, in the Gothic tradition. The next one is just plain, with no dye or leather to the wooden flasks. The one at the bottom with six small measuring flasks is of Swiss provenance and of good quality; it has a portion of matchcord attached. According to my experience, the number of flasks/powder measures on a bandelier could vary between 6 and 15. I guess the term 'twelve apostles' which seems to be so painstakingly observed nowadays only came up in the Historismus/Victorian period and just described an ideal number. Last edited by Matchlock; 16th March 2014 at 10:05 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 535
|
![]()
I just love these rarities
![]() The first thing that came to my mind when seeing those earliest wooden flasks (post 1, top images) was that it was a quiver, but this would only be possible for the left one, the other three are to small (the left one maybe also). The lead powder flask puzzled me as well, but i was thinking.. might it be some sort of weight to keep the bandolier in place? It could get quit anoying if such a thing kept moving around.. just something that i thoughed of ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
![]()
I attached four items from various auctions.
As I said, by about the mid-16th century the relatively light and short arquebus was commonly replaced by the much longer and heavier musket which also had a bigger bore. Sadly there do not seem to be any records on the development of musketeer's bandeliers from the second half of the 16th century but wooden powder measures must have made their breakthrough, and soon we find a pleated leather pouch which is commonly thought to have held balls. Sometimes, especially on Dutch influenced samples like the bandeliers in the Emden armory, we also see a brass ring or just a leather loop attached to carry a portion of matchcord. All the Emden bandeliers consist of a broad, tooled and blackened leather belt and feature 8 to 14 wooden powder measures covered by thin black leather; where the ends of the belt are joined, a pleated, sturdy leather pouch is sewn to the leather. Additionally, these Emden samples have a piece of felt sewn to the shoulder section of the belt (German: Schulterfilz), which made it easier for the musketeer to rest and carry the heavyweight musket (ca. 7 to 10 kgs). Interestingly, none of these Emden bandeliers has a special flask for priming powder fitted with a long nozzle, as we know it from bandeliers made in Switzerland and Austria shown before. The image of the caliverman's or pikeman's armor attached at the bottom, combined with a musketeer's bandelier, is of course historically incorrect; it is just a photo impression from the Emden Armory. In my collection still are three bandeliers from the Emden Armory, ca. 1600-20. One of them has attached a powder measure that is much heavier than the others made of wood; it consists of lead and has a removable leaden cap, both covered with black leather. I cannot think of any practical reason except a better prevention against moisture, but I know that at least the caps of such measures were sometimes made of lead in England, and I attached a few samples. But even then: a complete bandelier consisting of leaden chargers would have been simply too heavy, so what? Please see also http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18290 I attached some samples of leaden caps for bandelier flasks found in England. m Last edited by Matchlock; 17th March 2014 at 12:16 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
![]()
Many good musketeer's bandeliers of Dutch type are preserved in the Emden armory, Northwest Germany. I took the following photos when attending that armory in 1987 and 1992.
As stated before, all these Emden bandeliers have a sturdy, pleated lether pouch with draw strings, an oval piece of felt for resting the heavy musket, and either a brass ring or a leather loop for a portion of matchcord. In my collection there are three bandeliers from the Emden Armory, ca. 1600-20. One of them has attached a powder measure that is much heavier than the others made of wood; it consists of lead and has a removable leaden cap, both covered with black leather. I cannot think of any practical reason except a better prevention against moisture, but I know that at least the caps of such measures were sometimes made of lead in England, and I attached a few samples. But even then: a complete bandelier consisting of leaden chargers would have been simply too heavy, so what? Please see also http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18290 |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
![]()
More of my Emden bandeliers.
The measurements and data of an average Emden musketeer's bandelier are: overall length of belt: ca. 120 cm width of belt: 5 cm smooth upper side tooled with parallel lines and dyed with a black lacquer, underside rough and brown 10 powder measures made of oakwood, 14 x 3.5 cm, suspended on twisted round and blackened leather strings weight ca. 700-800 g. I also attached two close-ups of the leaden flask on one of the bandeliers. Finally there are some photos of extremely rare and well-made Swedish bandeliers, ca. 1620, the belt consisting of seal skin. Last edited by Matchlock; 17th March 2014 at 06:59 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
![]()
Close-ups of one of the sturdy, pleated leather ball pouches with its lid and draw strings and its sewings.
At the bottom one of the brass rings (now heavily patinated to a blackish color) for carrying a portion of matchcord. m Last edited by Matchlock; 17th March 2014 at 07:15 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 535
|
![]() Quote:
Hi Michael, I posted a possible answer to your question about the lead powder flask, but i am afraid i was a bit to early since you where still posting more images (etc). ![]() Could the lead powder flask be some sort of weight to keep the bandelier in place? best, Marcus |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 | |
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
|
![]() Quote:
Hi Marcus, Please forgive me, I overlooked your query indeed being too busy taking and loading up tons of photos. I do not think that that leaden flask was an apt means to keep the bandelier hanging straight. Best, Michael |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Near Munich, Bavaria, Germany
Posts: 12
|
![]()
The lead flask could perhaps have been used for the priming powder. Dpeneding on the actual size of the flask, this would stay longer in the flask than a single charge. So if resistance to moisture played a role, this might be a reason.
Michael, again great details, your pictures are invaluable! |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|