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#1 |
Arms Historian
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Interesting notes guys. I would like to clarify something first of all, that this discussion is not a debate, it is far more an investigative mission in the development and history of the kasthane in its distinct form as known.
We are reviewing known facts and establishing perspective and ideas with these and any pertinent evidence which is found to either support or dismiss the plausibility of them. The objective of course is to establish a comprehensive understanding of how these distinct hilts developed, when, and more on the variant examples as well. At this point, I personally do not believe that the zoomorphic hilt style developed from any European intervention, either Portuguese or others later. It is recognized however as I had mentioned in earlier posts that these hilts apparently influenced some European designs in degree as exotica appealing to mercantile interests and as cultural novelties. Also, while of certain significance, the 1638 date with the Raja Singh III example would not establish a terminus ante quem for the hilt form, as we know that the Hasekura example predated that by at least two decades and was in Japan by 1622. The items acquired by the Dutch in 1765 by the same token do not establish a terminus post quem as these, while related in degree to design and style, do not signal the end of the kasthane as a form. I think we have established somewhat notably that the guard system and quillons configuration does appear to have arrived in Ceylon most likely through the Moors, who in turn seem to have adopted this system from Italian swords. This influence, and associations between North Italy via trade contacts and North Africa at one extent west, and as far as Ceylon to the east, is noted by Anthony North (1975, op. cit.) and citing Charles Buttin (1933, op.cit). These hilts with this distinct guard pattern had been in Italy from the 15th century, and were actually the basis for developing the fully developed rapier style guards later in varying degree. While we have not determined as yet, irrefutable evidence of the earliest known kasthane hilt in its more recognizable form with the zoomorphic figures, as well as the distinctly formed quillon system, we do believe that the knuckleguard was of course part of those Moorish influences quite early. The Portuguese arrival in Ceylon in 1505 is quite contemporary with the North Italian hilts of 15th century we are describing as having probable influence on the vestigially designed Sinhalese hilts, however there is no reason to think that their arrival brought the hilt form. This would seem apparent as the diffusion of the hilt guard form extended to regions of Arab trade which did not have Portuguese influence, North Africa for example. While there is a great deal of focus on the Royal Workshops in Kandy for the production of significant examples of the kasthane, I would like to note that the variant forms and apparently other contemporary production seems to have been present elsewhere in Ceylon as well. I think case in point here would be the numerous examples which were mounted with the VOC blades, primarily in the 18th century (in concurrent discussion on another thread) . Obviously no kasthane produced in the Royal Workshops would be mounted with these blades, and the question remains, were these so mounted kasthane produced with these blades as novelty for VOC forces, or to supply auxiliary allied Sinhalese forces there? As shown, it is about questions and answers, not debate. At this point any type of chronology or typology is being developed from these, and remains pending as we continue. Ideally, it would be wonderful to have these kinds of neatly placed facts and tables set in place with the arms we study, but these ideals are goals we can only strive for in hopes of some success. What is important is that we do so together, and help each other learn along the way. |
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#2 |
(deceased)
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PERHAPS WE HAVE JUMPED TOO FAR FROM THE ORIGINS OF THESE WEAPONS. WE DISCUSS MOORS, PORTUGESE, DUTCH, CHINESE, ECT AND PERHAPS THESE DID HAVE SOME LATER INFLUENCES.
THE ISLAND OF CEYLON HAD AN ADVANCED CIVILIZATION LONG BEFORE THE ARRIVAL OF THESE OUTSIDERS AND AS A WARRIOR SOCIETY HAD WELL DEVELOPED WEAPONS AND MARTIAL ARTS. THEY WOULD HAVE MADE THEIR OWN WEAPONS BUT THE STRONGEST EARLY INFLUENCE WOULD HAVE BEEN FROM SOUTHERN INDIA BOTH IN RELIGION, CIVILIZATION AND WAR. WE NEED SOME ONE WELL VERSED IN THAT AREA AND ITS EARLY CULTURE TO SEE WHAT WAS THERE AND WHAT COULD HAVE EVOLVED INTO THE DESIGN OF THE KASTHANE AND THE PHIA. PICTURES OF TWO EXAMPLES OF INDIAN WEAPONS THOUGH NOT AS OLD AS THOSE WE NEED TO SEE EXAMPLES OF. Last edited by VANDOO; 5th March 2014 at 05:45 PM. |
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#3 | |
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Salaams Vandoo... Great pictures thank you... I was just looking at a deity headed Indian sword stick and your post popped up...! It is amazing what influences were around and Indian being bang on the doorstep must have had a lot of bearing on design... in Sri Lankan style. It is great to have such examples placed on thread as such good quality pictures bring the thread alive... Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. ![]() |
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#4 | |
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Salaams Vandoo~ There are many examples of the Indian Zoomorphic Mythical variety ... I bumped into this one ... A simple sword stick on a Yaali hilt (pot metal) without scabbard.. in Buraimi Souk... I think it safe to assume the Buddhist-Hindu linkage in decorative design upon the Kastane as being entirely home grown within the regional influence of other countries close by with similar religious aspects, though, the indicators seem also to point toward a possible European sword base design perhaps introduced by the Mercantile activities of the Sri Lankan Moors. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. |
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#5 |
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Great discussion, and interesting points guys!
I think it is important to remember that much of the iconography seen on the hilts of the kasthane are indeed those connected to Southern India culturally and religiously in large degree. These stylized zoomorphics and certain other features may be connected to elements of weapons from the Deccan, Madras (Chennai) and of course Tamil Nadu. There was as I understand strong Tamil presence which seems in the north of Ceylon predominantly so certainly influences would have diffused accordingly. The weapons shown by Vandoo are a Hindu style dagger of chilanum/bichwa/khanjharli blade type with the zoomorphic pommel hilt and langet similar to other daggers of Deccan to Tanjore. The sword with downturned quillons is of course of the form known in Afghanistan as the paluoar (to collectors though not necessarily locally), but which derives from Deccani influences. These carry Persian influence, most notably the quillons in creature heads (often termed dragon heads) and from 16th-17th c.. These sabres while typically associated with Afghanistan are actually a form of tulwar with strong Deccani associations, and the Afghan preference for the form its northernmost Indian context. Until the 20th century, Afghanistan was part of India (Northwest Frontier). The use of zoomorphic hilts depicting mythical creatures important in religious iconography does not need to have relied on European suggestion as the adaption of the religious imbuement of arms seems to have well in place with that found in temples. While weapons in early Ceylon seem to correspond to those of early India in general form, the application of zoomorphic images of mythical creatures would seem to have occurred independent of European influence. The adaption (vestigially) of quillon systems similar to those found on North Italian swords from 15th century onward seems likely to have filtered into Moorish settlements in Ceylon prior to the Portuguese arrival, though in timeline seems quite close as that was 1505 and these hilts from Italy are only slightly earlier. The similarities are discussed as previously noted in North, 1975 and Buttin, 1933). As far as I am aware, there were no Portuguese sword forms using zoomorphic hilts, nor of course were Arabic or Moorish forms either in these times. In references I have seen it noted that the influence of the exotic mythical themes on the developed kasthane style hits, and probably the piha kaetta, had the profound fascination and intrigue of the merchants and colonials of European countries . It would seem that these were exported 'from' Ceylon via these mediums rather than brought in. By the same token, it would seem that the application of iconographic images onto weapons was likely a development from influence from the subcontinent and that the themes seen on the kasthane hilt decoratively likely developed there accordingly. The hilt structurally probably absorbed influence from the Arabic and North Italian forms and was integrated with the decorative embellishment as noted. It is my impression that likely early forms of Sinhalese weapons may have had some sort of mythical creature embellishment however that to me remains unclear. The adaption of the more developed guard seems to have been adopted around the same time generally as the curved sabre blades of course through Moorish influence (as noted by Deraniyagala, 1942). That is my personal perspective at this point based on my own earlier research as well as the outstanding material that has been shared in this thread and the others connected . |
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#6 |
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FOR INFLUENCES ON A CULTURE ONE NEED ONLY LOOK AT ITS RULERS. WHO WERE THEIR ALLIES, WHO WERE THEIR ENEMYS AND WHO DID THEY TRADE WITH. THE EARLIEST INFLUENCES ARE USUALLY BASED ON ONE RULER EITHER FRIEND OR ENEMY HAVING SOMETHING THE OTHER DOES NOT HAVE AND THE SECOND RULER TRYING TO MATCH THAT AND TOP IT. FOR INSTANCE IF RULER #1 HAS A ELEPHANT TO RIDE RULER #2 MUST GET A BIGGER AND BETTER ONE AND PERHAPS SEVERAL MORE. THE ARMS RACE IS NOT SOMETHING NEW
![]() THE EARLY CONTACTS WERE NO DOUBT WITH SOUTHERN INDIA BECAUSE OF PROXIMITY AND THE CULTURES DID HAVE A LOT IN COMMON AND LIKELY HAD CULTURAL CONNECTIONS FAR IN THE PAST. SO IF THE SWORDS OF OTHERS ARE MORE DECORATIVE OR LARGER ONE MUST MATCH AND EXCEED THAT OF THE COMPETICIAN. WAR, SHOWING OFF AND FASHON ALL ACCELERATE INOVATION AND CHANGES IN A SOCIETY. SO I VOTE FOR SOUTHERN INDIA AS THE STRONGEST INFLUENCE. |
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#7 |
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The Kastane story may continue ad infinitum to develop and based on the excellent material unearthed by Forum so far.. For me, however, the culminating note is unveiled by Wikepedia the famous on line encyclopedia which states ~
The Kastane. Quote"The Kastane is a short traditional ceremonial/decorative single-edged sword of Sri Lanka. Kastanes often have elaborate hilts, especially shaped and described as a rich mythical style inherited from Buddhism and Hinduism and in blending a variety of Deities including Makara, Lions, Kirtimukha, Serapendiya, Nagas, crocodile/human monsters and other dragon and gargoyle like effigies. Some are emitted onto the hand guard and cross guard with Vajra style pseudo-quillons whose finials are also decorated by minor monsters and a rain-guard decorated by the Makara or Serapendiya Peacock tail or fish scales which occasionally flows over and onto the blade at the throat. The Scabbard is occasionally seen with a miniature beasts head at the Chape also emitting a Deity or cloud pattern. Sometimes a small human face decorates the hand-guard which is a half human/half crocodile monster. The main aspect of Kastane Hilts shows the central Deity accompanied by supporting minor Deity forms and the peculiar guard arrangement incorporating Buddhist style Vajra quillons, cross and hand guards and decorated handguard with further embelishment often spilling over onto the blades throat. In approaching a description authors should observe each Kastane separately since no two are identical and the main Hilt theme thus could be either of the variant Deities Lion or Makara/ Serapendiya etc. and since artist and artisan may well have applied a broad ranging interpretation of the form. In 1807 it is recorded that the sword was an indicator of Official Rank so that the more senior persons would wear a more lavishly adorned weapon etc...and that this was also the intent though perhaps to a lesser degree in the Portuguese and Dutch periods. They may first have arisen in the Kandyan Kingdom (15/16th century ?), perhaps inspired by European swords brought by the Portuguese period in Ceylon or in fact imported by the great Sri Lankan sea traders ... The Moors....The basic form being lavishly adorned so much so that it is almost impossible to designate a base pattern though North Italian or Venetian seems plausible. The hilt resembles South Indian weapon designs. The blade comes in a variety of sizes and it can be either straight or slightly curved. They are usually single-edged and most frequently are made in Europe(Solingen). None of the blades bear either Portuguese marks or English East India Company trademarks (EIC), however, there are many examples of Dutch influence with blades marked VOC. The single part of the sword that shares the similar characteristics is the hilt. It has two or four quillons. In the 4-quillon version the smaller two quillons are swept downwards toward the tip of the blade. In fact it is arguable if these are Quillons since they are mirror images of the Vajra projections on the Buddhist religious axe and perhaps serve no defensive purpose. The pommel and the quillons are very beautiful as each of them ends with a carved Deity's head. The hilts are often encrusted with gemstones as in the eyes of Ruby stones and inlaid with silver or made entirely of silver or gold. The scabbards of the Kastane swords are made of wood or rhino horn and are decorated with brass, silver and/or gold. It is a testament to the skill of the traditional craftsmen operating in Sri Lankas ancient Royal Sword Workshops".Unquote. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. |
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#8 |
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salaams ibrahiim,firstly im not intent on telling people how they should research,not at all ,what i was trying to establish,was known provenanced items,if enough examples can be gathered,might begin to show a broad frame work,starting for the sake of arguement with known portugese examples of the period,already been said i know,but does anyone have any?
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#9 | |
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![]() Last edited by David; 11th March 2014 at 04:47 PM. |
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#10 |
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While there is a great deal of focus on the Royal Workshops in Kandy for the production of significant examples of the kasthane, I would like to note that the variant forms and apparently other contemporary production seems to have been present elsewhere in Ceylon as well. I think case in point here would be the numerous examples which were mounted with the VOC blades, primarily in the 18th century (in concurrent discussion on another thread) .
Obviously no kasthane produced in the Royal Workshops would be mounted with these blades, and the question remains, were these so mounted kasthane produced with these blades as novelty for VOC forces, or to supply auxiliary allied Sinhalese forces there? Salaams Jim...Thank you for your great post. That is a hugely significant question. Though it is quite late in the Kastane story it certainly falls into the categories of development and style thus I wonder where these Kastane were turned out? Was it "The Kastane" only made in Royal Workshops...or in some form of VOC controlled environment?..Could they have been made by artesans in Jacarta? Or was there collusion at the time with Royal Workshops who made all the essential parts and then the blades were fitted finally by...by who?? ![]() My own view is that the Kastane shape arrived earlier as you indicate with the great sea traders The Sri Lankan Moors and the influence of form happened spontaniously with that specific form at its heart..."The Outside Influence Theory." The other plausible possibility and my alternative view, is that this form happened without foreign influence and within the confines of Sri Lankan sword technology, religious and mythical influence and design ... The "Home Grown" Theory. The trouble is that we simply do not have an early enough example to substantiate either theory. Naturally it can't be both... or can it? A sword form that perhaps had virtually died out was resurected as an in-vogue badge of office and court sword...by foreign invader groups.. why not? In fact that is one way of describing the VOC/ EIC effect... and shown to be the case earlier with the Popham Armour...It is known that the blade production capacity dropped considerably in Sri Lanka caused by cheap imported blades by the invaders... Fascinating indeed is the Hasekura episode, however, a good defence lawyer would have a heyday tearing apart the inconclusive evidence since the Hasekura Kastane was not officially presented(thus documentation is thin) and may well have been cross hilted on a Chinese or Storta blade. The passing on and custodianship in Japan of that item are somewhat clouded. Being obtained, purchased or recieved as a gift in the Philipines does not help the case..but it is nonetheless very interesting not least because of the blade marks which may or may not be Hasekuras. Local influence is clear and similar designs appear even on another home grown variety .. The Piha Khaeta which sports similar Hilt and lavish top of blade spill over design and similar design patterning as the Kastane ... hardly surprising since they came from virtually the same Royal Workshop section as Kastane... and may have even been made by the same artesans. Regional influence through Buddhist and Hindu fused history plays a huge part in the puzzle with a complete quillon style that predates European quillons and may in fact not be quillons at all... but simply a design feature..taken from Tibettan Vajra finials. At least they appear not to function as Quillons. (hardly a requirement anyway as a court sword) The other guards are so adorned with decorative religious mythical clutter it is almost impossible to sort out a base form. Though is that necessary? I think not... We don't try to strip down the Piha Khaeta why do it with the Kastane. I tend to view the two items through the same prism. The potential as absolutely ancient traditional and highly ornate weapons is there... So what about the main hilt feature? This is straight from the traditions... ancient religious and mythical (Whether Lion or Monster from deep Ocean or Jungle it matters not.) The regional similarities between it and Indian and Javanese hilts is remarkable. What is absolute, however, is that this is Sri Lankan. Clearly the Workshops Royale were tuned to create such masterpieces with craftsmen in the caste system expert in each segment of the product ...and flowing back through the early 16th C and beyond to arguably the time the great migration South from India occured in about the 3rd century BC. Turning the coin the other way shows the potential of the Moors to have brought in a European weapon in pre European times, from Hormuz, Bazra or the Red sea or in fact for a weapon to have gone overland via the silk road Persia and India onward to Sri Lanka via any sea port on the Indian Ocean..and thence to the attention of Royal Workshops for adornment..but I have to say I think it perhaps the weaker of the two possibilities. At the same time compelling suggestions are present see #21 which must be seriously considered pointing at European potential influence. There is also the possibility the Moors brought with them an Arabian design as the base shape.. The Algerian Flysa dagger springs to mind... and in the same paragraph (because I cant fathom where to put the detail) is the conundrum, if there is one, of the influence of or onto The Nimcha. Development shows how the Kastane went on to the designs of Dog Hilts onto English and Continental swords..rather late in proceedings and in another curious direction ... onto belly dancing swords !! ~ and the rest as they say is history ~ or put another way... come on Forum its your turn !! Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. ![]() Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 6th March 2014 at 08:34 AM. |
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