VOC BLADES: A comprehensive look

A. G. Maisey · 26th February 2014, 10:06 PM

I reckon you've been at this game about as long as I have Jim.

My collecting started with the gift of my grandfather's small collection when I was 12 in 1953. I started buying for myself a couple of years after that.

Yes, if we look at what we had to pay back in the 1950's and compare to the prices of today it can make our hearts bleed.

But we tend to forget what wages were back then.

I started work in 1957. My first week's pay was about $10 (about 5 Australian pounds). At that time I had no qualification and was working as a junior clerk for a government agency. In 1955 in Australia an adult tradesman received about $15 for a 40 hour week

Some time in 1957 I bought an old Javanese keris:- Tuban, ivory hilt, badly damaged scabbard. It cost me about $60 (+/- 30 pounds). Six weeks pay. I had saved this money to buy a repeating rifle, I'd only had a single shot at the time, but the keris won.

Now tell me:-

how long does a junior clerk work these days to get enough to buy a middle quality 22RF bolt action rifle?

In Australia I reckon that less than a week's work will get him something pretty OK.

For an adult tradesman the cost will be about 2 or 3 days work, not the month that an adult tradesman would have had to work to buy the rifle in 1955.

What is today's value of a keris such as I describe?

Well, a junior clerk will work a bit longer than a week to get a keris such as I bought in 1957, but it won't be anywhere near the 5 weeks that I worked to get that keris.

In fact Jim, it is more affordable to collect edged weapons now than it has been at any time during the last 60 years.

Jim McDougall · 26th February 2014, 11:07 PM

Well noted Alan!!! and it is of course quite relative. If I tell one of these 'young' people I still remember 19 cent gasoline they look at me like I'm from another planet

In perspective it is indeed probably quite affordable to collect these days, but there is a distinct stratus according to what field is being collected. I was lucky in that I was far more historian than discerning collector, so the examples I got were often pretty beat up, but obviously not fooled with.
These were the rough old warriors which had their stories to tell ,
kinda like us

A. G. Maisey · 26th February 2014, 11:28 PM

Yeah, I guess so Jim.

Back in the 1950's and 1960's here in Oz, a good keris, a good Indo-Persian piece, a good Jap sword were all worth around about the same money, which in the mid-'50's was about 100 pounds.

Ordinary workers did not collect unless they were willing to sacrifice a lot. A real lot.

That is not the case today.

asomotif · 27th February 2014, 12:17 PM

I owned a javanese pedang with a VOC blade a few(4?)years ago.
I found the pictures again, unfortunately not very good pictures.
But they give once more an impression of the blade form.

At that time I also sent these pictures to the dutch Army museum, and the curator confirmed that this was very likely an original VOC blade used for a javanese pedang.
To be sure he had to see the blade in hands, but I did not make the trip to the museum.
To stick with Alan's story. The pedang cost me about 1,5 days pay.
(I am pretty normal working class btw)
And when I sold it shortly after I did not make a noticable profit :-)

best regards,
Willem

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 27th February 2014, 01:32 PM

Salaams All~ I think the size and scope of the VOC operation was colosal ... This was a huge trading block not only in terms of transporting goods internationally by sea but as Ship Builders and Fortress Constructors it was mindblowing !! They arrived in Batavia (Jakarta) and built this...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 27th February 2014, 01:34 PM

Their operation was huge ... backed by an in built militia and private navy...

Maurice · 27th February 2014, 04:39 PM

Thank you Willem for posting your Javanese pedang.
Most of the Indonesian swords with the VOC mark in the blade seems to be from Java.
As the Dutch were very dominant in their present overhere (we all have heard about Batavia, even some of you don't know what it exactly was) it can't be a coincedence to encounter most of the VOC blades overhere.

@ Jim and Alan: Yes the bad old days...when people could count on their pension still....

Maurice

27th February 2014, 12:17 PM	#4
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,235	I owned a javanese pedang with a VOC blade a few(4?)years ago. I found the pictures again, unfortunately not very good pictures. But they give once more an impression of the blade form. At that time I also sent these pictures to the dutch Army museum, and the curator confirmed that this was very likely an original VOC blade used for a javanese pedang. To be sure he had to see the blade in hands, but I did not make the trip to the museum. To stick with Alan's story. The pedang cost me about 1,5 days pay. (I am pretty normal working class btw) And when I sold it shortly after I did not make a noticable profit :-) best regards, Willem Attached Images

27th February 2014, 01:32 PM	#5
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams All~ I think the size and scope of the VOC operation was colosal ... This was a huge trading block not only in terms of transporting goods internationally by sea but as Ship Builders and Fortress Constructors it was mindblowing !! They arrived in Batavia (Jakarta) and built this... Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 28th February 2014 at 06:17 AM.

27th February 2014, 01:34 PM	#6
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Their operation was huge ... backed by an in built militia and private navy... Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 28th February 2014 at 06:17 AM.

26th February 2014, 10:06 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	I reckon you've been at this game about as long as I have Jim. My collecting started with the gift of my grandfather's small collection when I was 12 in 1953. I started buying for myself a couple of years after that. Yes, if we look at what we had to pay back in the 1950's and compare to the prices of today it can make our hearts bleed. But we tend to forget what wages were back then. I started work in 1957. My first week's pay was about $10 (about 5 Australian pounds). At that time I had no qualification and was working as a junior clerk for a government agency. In 1955 in Australia an adult tradesman received about $15 for a 40 hour week Some time in 1957 I bought an old Javanese keris:- Tuban, ivory hilt, badly damaged scabbard. It cost me about $60 (+/- 30 pounds). Six weeks pay. I had saved this money to buy a repeating rifle, I'd only had a single shot at the time, but the keris won. Now tell me:- how long does a junior clerk work these days to get enough to buy a middle quality 22RF bolt action rifle? In Australia I reckon that less than a week's work will get him something pretty OK. For an adult tradesman the cost will be about 2 or 3 days work, not the month that an adult tradesman would have had to work to buy the rifle in 1955. What is today's value of a keris such as I describe? Well, a junior clerk will work a bit longer than a week to get a keris such as I bought in 1957, but it won't be anywhere near the 5 weeks that I worked to get that keris. In fact Jim, it is more affordable to collect edged weapons now than it has been at any time during the last 60 years.

26th February 2014, 11:07 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,578	Well noted Alan!!! and it is of course quite relative. If I tell one of these 'young' people I still remember 19 cent gasoline they look at me like I'm from another planet In perspective it is indeed probably quite affordable to collect these days, but there is a distinct stratus according to what field is being collected. I was lucky in that I was far more historian than discerning collector, so the examples I got were often pretty beat up, but obviously not fooled with. These were the rough old warriors which had their stories to tell , kinda like us

26th February 2014, 11:28 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Yeah, I guess so Jim. Back in the 1950's and 1960's here in Oz, a good keris, a good Indo-Persian piece, a good Jap sword were all worth around about the same money, which in the mid-'50's was about 100 pounds. Ordinary workers did not collect unless they were willing to sacrifice a lot. A real lot. That is not the case today.

27th February 2014, 04:39 PM	#7
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,456	Thank you Willem for posting your Javanese pedang. Most of the Indonesian swords with the VOC mark in the blade seems to be from Java. As the Dutch were very dominant in their present overhere (we all have heard about Batavia, even some of you don't know what it exactly was) it can't be a coincedence to encounter most of the VOC blades overhere. @ Jim and Alan: Yes the bad old days...when people could count on their pension still.... Maurice