The Fire, the Queen and the Cutlass

M ELEY · 13th February 2014, 10:55 PM

Hello CC,
I see your point exactly now that you have pulled up that old thread (I couldn't find it earlier). Thanks for that. Yes, the VR is perplexing. In several Fagan & Company military catalogs over the past decade, they have had privateer-type cutlass, with the ribbed iron grips and sheet iron guards, obviously of the period, marked (according to the description, unfortunately pics of sword way too small) with VR/crown. I have no doubt that they were not fake, tourist or remade items. Thus, if we rule out fraud, the path goes back to spurious Solingen pieces made for the privateer/merchant/export trade or real items put into service by the British navy.
Concerning my example, the marking is so barely legible, that it wouldn't help in identification. The R is badly rubbed, but visible, as is the top right-hand corner of the V. The crown is illegible save for the bottom ridge. Looking at where the corner of the V meets the mid-portion of the crown, the mark was probably just like the one on yours, being that it might have been the WR type, reduced to VR where the V doesn't quite sit well under the crown, if you catch my drift.
A few more points, for what they are worth. Of the above examples featured in the auction catalogs, some of the cutlass mentioned were only marked with a RN? Royal Navy? Does anyone know of this marking? Proof of spurious stamp?
CC, do you have Annis' "Naval Swords"? If so, you will note the sword on pg.61, #42 'British Hanger cum Cutlass'. It is marked in the block letter GR/crown as well as having the WIDC marking, for West India Dock Company. This associated naval piece got me wondering if other, quasi-branches of the naval dept. might have had markings on their swords, or for that matter, if overseas colonial Brit pieces might have had such block-letter markings? Would a Brit coast-guard station have been issued older pattern swords with said markings in the advent of the shortage? Just thinking aloud...

CutlassCollector · 14th February 2014, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

CC, do you have Annis' "Naval Swords"? If so, you will note the sword on pg.61, #42 'British Hanger cum Cutlass'. It is marked in the block letter GR/crown as well as having the WIDC marking, for West India Dock Company. This associated naval piece got me wondering if other, quasi-branches of the naval dept. might have had markings on their swords, or for that matter, if overseas colonial Brit pieces might have had such block-letter markings? Would a Brit coast-guard station have been issued older pattern swords with said markings in the advent of the shortage? Just thinking aloud...

Yes I have that book and also a very similar cutlass to the one you indicated - blade slightly more curved and 2 bar guard, marked Enfield and a small block GR under crown. 1820's coastguard I think. Sim Comfort also shows (EW172) similar that he thinks may have been private or possibly customs service 1840's - similar blade but fluted handle and steel guard. This is marked VR and the cypher is similar to the 1804 cutlass. Below is a picture from the book.

I have never seen RN marked on a cutlass and I'm not sure how early N became a standard mark for Brit Naval cutlasses and boarding axes but N was common late part of 19th and into 20th Century.
CC.

13th February 2014, 10:55 PM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Hello CC, I see your point exactly now that you have pulled up that old thread (I couldn't find it earlier). Thanks for that. Yes, the VR is perplexing. In several Fagan & Company military catalogs over the past decade, they have had privateer-type cutlass, with the ribbed iron grips and sheet iron guards, obviously of the period, marked (according to the description, unfortunately pics of sword way too small) with VR/crown. I have no doubt that they were not fake, tourist or remade items. Thus, if we rule out fraud, the path goes back to spurious Solingen pieces made for the privateer/merchant/export trade or real items put into service by the British navy. Concerning my example, the marking is so barely legible, that it wouldn't help in identification. The R is badly rubbed, but visible, as is the top right-hand corner of the V. The crown is illegible save for the bottom ridge. Looking at where the corner of the V meets the mid-portion of the crown, the mark was probably just like the one on yours, being that it might have been the WR type, reduced to VR where the V doesn't quite sit well under the crown, if you catch my drift. A few more points, for what they are worth. Of the above examples featured in the auction catalogs, some of the cutlass mentioned were only marked with a RN? Royal Navy? Does anyone know of this marking? Proof of spurious stamp? CC, do you have Annis' "Naval Swords"? If so, you will note the sword on pg.61, #42 'British Hanger cum Cutlass'. It is marked in the block letter GR/crown as well as having the WIDC marking, for West India Dock Company. This associated naval piece got me wondering if other, quasi-branches of the naval dept. might have had markings on their swords, or for that matter, if overseas colonial Brit pieces might have had such block-letter markings? Would a Brit coast-guard station have been issued older pattern swords with said markings in the advent of the shortage? Just thinking aloud...