Provenance and wood type of sampir keris

rasdan · 4th January 2005, 06:10 AM

Thanks guys. Actually i the wood itself has quite an impressive grain but is not enhanced before. Whoa, i dont know that this sort of thing can cause heart problems. Thanks for the advice Montino, and i will be happy to help anybody in restoration works. Thanks also to Dave for introducing french polish to me.

Federico · 4th January 2005, 09:45 PM

Make sure the drying area is dust free, I can see speckles of dust in the finish. It appears, just a little thick, hence the high shine, but for the first time at it great job. You can try smoothing out the finish/dulling it with #0000 steel wool.

nechesh · 4th January 2005, 09:50 PM

That's a beautiful grain Rasdan. What made you paint it to begin with.

rasdan · 5th January 2005, 01:46 AM

Hi guys,

Thanks for the advice Fred. I'm thinking of redoing the thing all over again, but i've tried more than a couple of time during last weekend, perhaps maybe next week.

Actually, painting (laquer actually) it black is just my experiment to see how much that the colour of the wood could change after the laquer had been cleared. It appeares that it does absorb some laquer but the color change is not quite significant.

DAHenkel · 5th January 2005, 10:20 AM

Hmm, very interesting Rasdan. Your sampir appears to be some other kind of wood rather than kemuning - possibly bongor but I'm not 100% sure. Its a very unusual grain for Kemuning but it would also be extremely rare to use bongor for a sampir. Its normally used for batangs but wood taken from the root area might be suitable for sampir. I shall have to show these pictures to Nik Dee to get his opinion.

rahman · 5th January 2005, 12:51 PM

Mr Henkel... I'm a newcomer to this excellent forum, and a babe in the woods when it comes to keris. Might I ask for your kind instruction on how one might differentiate the sampir here as "Pattani style. Definintely not any kind of Bugis, Sulawesi, Straits or otherwise."?

I was told Pattani sheaths have a distinct Sari Bulan shape. These sheaths, without their ridges, are normally seen as Bugis (against Riau, with ridges).

Thanks.

DAHenkel · 5th January 2005, 02:18 PM

First off, welcome to the forum Encik Rahman.

Actually, the "square-ish" sheath form is virtually ubiquitous across much of the "Malay" world. In fact it is easy to say such sheaths are the most typical Malay keris sheath. On the Peninsula they are normally referred to as a sampir tebeng or sampir Bugis and they probably do have their origins in Sulawesi. However over time the form has spread and today is found in all manner of variant forms and styles. Often it is not particularly easy to differentiate between them.

Pattani and Kelantan keris share many characteristics with each other and are often difficult to tell apart. Both have tebeng sheaths that are only slightly different at base and sometimes are more or less indistinguishable. As a general rule though the Kelantanese tebeng tend to be somewhat more "boxy" and "massive" while Pattani sheaths tend to be slightly less so.

Both Kelantan and Pattani also have the saribulan sheath form.

I'd strongly recommend that you spend some time searching and reading through the posts on this forum as there are many pictures and lots of info.

4th January 2005, 06:10 AM	#1
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Thanks guys. Actually i the wood itself has quite an impressive grain but is not enhanced before. Whoa, i dont know that this sort of thing can cause heart problems. Thanks for the advice Montino, and i will be happy to help anybody in restoration works. Thanks also to Dave for introducing french polish to me.

4th January 2005, 09:45 PM	#2
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Make sure the drying area is dust free, I can see speckles of dust in the finish. It appears, just a little thick, hence the high shine, but for the first time at it great job. You can try smoothing out the finish/dulling it with #0000 steel wool.

4th January 2005, 09:50 PM	#3
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	That's a beautiful grain Rasdan. What made you paint it to begin with.

5th January 2005, 01:46 AM	#4
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Hi guys, Thanks for the advice Fred. I'm thinking of redoing the thing all over again, but i've tried more than a couple of time during last weekend, perhaps maybe next week. Actually, painting (laquer actually) it black is just my experiment to see how much that the colour of the wood could change after the laquer had been cleared. It appeares that it does absorb some laquer but the color change is not quite significant.

5th January 2005, 10:20 AM	#5
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	Hmm, very interesting Rasdan. Your sampir appears to be some other kind of wood rather than kemuning - possibly bongor but I'm not 100% sure. Its a very unusual grain for Kemuning but it would also be extremely rare to use bongor for a sampir. Its normally used for batangs but wood taken from the root area might be suitable for sampir. I shall have to show these pictures to Nik Dee to get his opinion.

5th January 2005, 12:51 PM	#6
rahman Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 84	Mr Henkel... I'm a newcomer to this excellent forum, and a babe in the woods when it comes to keris. Might I ask for your kind instruction on how one might differentiate the sampir here as "Pattani style. Definintely not any kind of Bugis, Sulawesi, Straits or otherwise."? I was told Pattani sheaths have a distinct Sari Bulan shape. These sheaths, without their ridges, are normally seen as Bugis (against Riau, with ridges). Thanks.

5th January 2005, 02:18 PM	#7
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	First off, welcome to the forum Encik Rahman. Actually, the "square-ish" sheath form is virtually ubiquitous across much of the "Malay" world. In fact it is easy to say such sheaths are the most typical Malay keris sheath. On the Peninsula they are normally referred to as a sampir tebeng or sampir Bugis and they probably do have their origins in Sulawesi. However over time the form has spread and today is found in all manner of variant forms and styles. Often it is not particularly easy to differentiate between them. Pattani and Kelantan keris share many characteristics with each other and are often difficult to tell apart. Both have tebeng sheaths that are only slightly different at base and sometimes are more or less indistinguishable. As a general rule though the Kelantanese tebeng tend to be somewhat more "boxy" and "massive" while Pattani sheaths tend to be slightly less so. Both Kelantan and Pattani also have the saribulan sheath form. I'd strongly recommend that you spend some time searching and reading through the posts on this forum as there are many pictures and lots of info.