Karabela origin?

ariel · 6th February 2014, 05:09 AM

Karbala is an Iraqi town that long ago belonged to Persia. That's where some people try to place the source of karabela.
However, karabela ( just a saber with a characteristic handle, no different from a tulwar with "pulwar" handle) is actually Turkish.
IMHO, the origin of the name is not Turkish "kara bela" and not the Italian " cara bella", but just a name of a Turkish town Karabel.
But this is just IMHO, and I am not going to get into a fight because of it :-)

archer burak · 7th February 2014, 09:12 PM

Thanks a lot dear friends , there is no possibilty about Karabela this is pure Türkish linguistic and Ker- bela city is now at the Iraq not in Turkey but dont we forget this is Ottoman Empire land at 600 years

also Poland we called Lehistan is also Ottoman Empire land too as a result of this karabela form is famous icon at the past

Sylektis · 19th February 2014, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archer burak

Thanks a lot dear friends , there is no possibilty about Karabela this is pure Türkish linguistic and Ker- bela city is now at the Iraq not in Turkey but dont we forget this is Ottoman Empire land at 600 years

also Poland we called Lehistan is also Ottoman Empire land too as a result of this karabela form is famous icon at the past

Poland Ottoman Empire Land?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland

Andrew · 20th February 2014, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylektis

Poland Ottoman Empire Land?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland

If we are going there (and I am far from convinced we should), let us proceed very carefully and leave any nationalistic or patriotic feelings at the door. Otherwise, there will be consequences.

This is not the place for socio-political debate.

archer burak · 22nd February 2014, 08:53 PM

Sorry but this history not politics , or ethnicity ,,,, and one thing more Poland name in Ottoman perriod was Lehistan ...thats history too...

Andrew · 23rd February 2014, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archer burak

Sorry but this history not politics , or ethnicity ,,,, and one thing more Poland name in Ottoman perriod was Lehistan ...thats history too...

Nonsense. I will not ask again. Leave it alone.

ariel · 24th February 2014, 01:43 AM

The entry of karabela into Polish armamentarium can likely be connected to 2 factors: the Ottoman rule over the Balkans and Hungary ( there are many karabelas in Balkan muzeums) and multiple wars between the Ottomans and Poland ( the Siege of Vienna, anyone? :-) ). Thus, there were plenty of opportunities for the Poles to get acquainted with karabelas. The timing of these events may be dated to ~ 15th century, when karabelas were noted among the arms of Poznan and Kalisz dukedoms . A bit later, the 17th century Polish poet Waclaw Potocki rued the disappearance of "swords, pallashes and kords" in favor of light "karabelas and czeczugas". From Poland, karabela spread to the Ukraine ( then a part of the Polish-Lithuanian kingdom) and to Russia, after Polish-Russian wars.

The funny thing is that Karabela is not a separate novel example of a particular sword ( like Pala or Shashka for example), but rather just a saber with virtually any type of the blade but with a distinct configuration of the pommel. This minute part of the "anatomy" is all that distinguishes karabela from a multitude of other saber-like long-bladed weapons.

Poland nurtured her relations with the Persian Empire as a counterweight to the Ottomans as well as the "sarmatian" connection of Polish aristocracy and loved all things Persian, but the karabela came from their foes, not allies.

An interesting moment is that Poland fought with Crimean Tatars ( vassals of the Ottoman Empire), and had a sizeable Tatar population , so why wouldn't we attribute the entry of Karabela into Poland from the Crimea? Simple: Tatars did not use karabelas, instead they had Circassian "ordynkas" that also entered Polish armamentarium, and were significantly more distinct as a pattern than karabelas.

Trailing weapons' migration is a lot of fun!

archer burak · 24th February 2014, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Nonsense. I will not ask again. Leave it alone.

If one country pay tax every year this became this country is an other countrys land technicly , thats why ı said Poland was Ottoman land ... nonsense realy

...

24th February 2014, 01:43 AM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The entry of karabela into Polish armamentarium can likely be connected to 2 factors: the Ottoman rule over the Balkans and Hungary ( there are many karabelas in Balkan muzeums) and multiple wars between the Ottomans and Poland ( the Siege of Vienna, anyone? :-) ). Thus, there were plenty of opportunities for the Poles to get acquainted with karabelas. The timing of these events may be dated to ~ 15th century, when karabelas were noted among the arms of Poznan and Kalisz dukedoms . A bit later, the 17th century Polish poet Waclaw Potocki rued the disappearance of "swords, pallashes and kords" in favor of light "karabelas and czeczugas". From Poland, karabela spread to the Ukraine ( then a part of the Polish-Lithuanian kingdom) and to Russia, after Polish-Russian wars. The funny thing is that Karabela is not a separate novel example of a particular sword ( like Pala or Shashka for example), but rather just a saber with virtually any type of the blade but with a distinct configuration of the pommel. This minute part of the "anatomy" is all that distinguishes karabela from a multitude of other saber-like long-bladed weapons. Poland nurtured her relations with the Persian Empire as a counterweight to the Ottomans as well as the "sarmatian" connection of Polish aristocracy and loved all things Persian, but the karabela came from their foes, not allies. An interesting moment is that Poland fought with Crimean Tatars ( vassals of the Ottoman Empire), and had a sizeable Tatar population , so why wouldn't we attribute the entry of Karabela into Poland from the Crimea? Simple: Tatars did not use karabelas, instead they had Circassian "ordynkas" that also entered Polish armamentarium, and were significantly more distinct as a pattern than karabelas. Trailing weapons' migration is a lot of fun! Last edited by ariel; 24th February 2014 at 03:12 AM.

6th February 2014, 05:09 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Karbala is an Iraqi town that long ago belonged to Persia. That's where some people try to place the source of karabela. However, karabela ( just a saber with a characteristic handle, no different from a tulwar with "pulwar" handle) is actually Turkish. IMHO, the origin of the name is not Turkish "kara bela" and not the Italian " cara bella", but just a name of a Turkish town Karabel. But this is just IMHO, and I am not going to get into a fight because of it :-)

7th February 2014, 09:12 PM	#2
archer burak Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: İstanbul Posts: 22	Thanks a lot dear friends , there is no possibilty about Karabela this is pure Türkish linguistic and Ker- bela city is now at the Iraq not in Turkey but dont we forget this is Ottoman Empire land at 600 years also Poland we called Lehistan is also Ottoman Empire land too as a result of this karabela form is famous icon at the past

22nd February 2014, 08:53 PM	#5
archer burak Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: İstanbul Posts: 22	Sorry but this history not politics , or ethnicity ,,,, and one thing more Poland name in Ottoman perriod was Lehistan ...thats history too...