Silver mounted hussar? sword for comment

M ELEY · 30th January 2014, 02:20 AM

Not my area, but an absolutely beautiful sword! In fact, I like the austerity of the piece, which seems to indicate that, yes, it was made for a person of some import, but also a piece that is more than a dress piece! I am curious how long the blade is? You mentioned that the blade length being shorter and I was curious what the standard length was for a horseman's saber? From what I've seen of European swords of the period, ca.1780-1810, anything over 30" seems to fit the bill-

Jim McDougall · 30th January 2014, 06:10 AM

Good point Valjhun, and that curious tab at the scabbard chape was one element which went against my Georgian idea. I simply brought that in as there were some interesting similarities, but the note you make on Austrian scabbards does sound familiar.

I am actually with you and Mark in that I also like the more austere examples especially in these cavalry sabres as they tend to be of course fighting weapons rather than dress.

Mark, I always thought that cavalry sabres had to be long, usually 33 to about 36", but I know that in a number of instances some officers sabres had remarkably short blades. I once had an British M1796 (by H Osborne)which I know dated 1796-1801 as it had the Royal arms of that period in gilt on the blade , and its blade was around 29".

All best regards,
Jim

fernando · 30th January 2014, 04:19 PM

I guess much has to be considerd about the stature of the user.
Not impossible that a short guy manages to enlist in cavalry, either a brave fellow or a noble representative, whereas he wouldn't like to wander around stumbling on his sword

.

M ELEY · 31st January 2014, 02:08 AM

Actually, I think you are right, Jim, about typical cavalry/horseman's sword blade lengths. One of the references I was falling back on was Neuman's book, whose examples ranged from 29'' up. His book, however, reflected many swords made under the duress of war, specifically American-made cav pieces with blade lenths all over the charts due to importation, makeshift blacksmith-made affairs, and blades taken from other/older and broken swords and refitted, so not the best source material, I guess-

Jim McDougall · 31st January 2014, 02:54 AM

Thanks Mark, it really does seem there were many factors involved and most more likely to have been 'logistical' rather than functional or according to size etc.
While purely analogical, it is interesting that regulations for the sabres for native cavalry units in British India prescribed 30" blades for one presidencies regiments and 33" blades for another. Never could figure that one out

Valjhun · 1st February 2014, 12:26 PM

This swords blade is 27,5 inches. I'm still quite sure that it is a late 18th century austrian hussar cavalry officer sword.

CutlassCollector · 2nd February 2014, 02:01 PM

I really like this sabre and as others have said it is a lovely and unusual piece and I too like the simplicity of the decoration.
It does occur to me that smooth silver is not the ideal combat grip and every time I look at the pictures I cannot get over the feeling that the D guard should swing or swivel aside and the silver lift off to reveal a working hilt underneath. Impossible I suppose?

Regards CC.

30th January 2014, 02:20 AM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,158	Not my area, but an absolutely beautiful sword! In fact, I like the austerity of the piece, which seems to indicate that, yes, it was made for a person of some import, but also a piece that is more than a dress piece! I am curious how long the blade is? You mentioned that the blade length being shorter and I was curious what the standard length was for a horseman's saber? From what I've seen of European swords of the period, ca.1780-1810, anything over 30" seems to fit the bill-

30th January 2014, 06:10 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Good point Valjhun, and that curious tab at the scabbard chape was one element which went against my Georgian idea. I simply brought that in as there were some interesting similarities, but the note you make on Austrian scabbards does sound familiar. I am actually with you and Mark in that I also like the more austere examples especially in these cavalry sabres as they tend to be of course fighting weapons rather than dress. Mark, I always thought that cavalry sabres had to be long, usually 33 to about 36", but I know that in a number of instances some officers sabres had remarkably short blades. I once had an British M1796 (by H Osborne)which I know dated 1796-1801 as it had the Royal arms of that period in gilt on the blade , and its blade was around 29". All best regards, Jim

30th January 2014, 04:19 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I guess much has to be considerd about the stature of the user. Not impossible that a short guy manages to enlist in cavalry, either a brave fellow or a noble representative, whereas he wouldn't like to wander around stumbling on his sword .

31st January 2014, 02:08 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,158	Actually, I think you are right, Jim, about typical cavalry/horseman's sword blade lengths. One of the references I was falling back on was Neuman's book, whose examples ranged from 29'' up. His book, however, reflected many swords made under the duress of war, specifically American-made cav pieces with blade lenths all over the charts due to importation, makeshift blacksmith-made affairs, and blades taken from other/older and broken swords and refitted, so not the best source material, I guess-

31st January 2014, 02:54 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Thanks Mark, it really does seem there were many factors involved and most more likely to have been 'logistical' rather than functional or according to size etc. While purely analogical, it is interesting that regulations for the sabres for native cavalry units in British India prescribed 30" blades for one presidencies regiments and 33" blades for another. Never could figure that one out

1st February 2014, 12:26 PM	#6
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	This swords blade is 27,5 inches. I'm still quite sure that it is a late 18th century austrian hussar cavalry officer sword.

2nd February 2014, 02:01 PM	#7
CutlassCollector Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Scotland Posts: 357	I really like this sabre and as others have said it is a lovely and unusual piece and I too like the simplicity of the decoration. It does occur to me that smooth silver is not the ideal combat grip and every time I look at the pictures I cannot get over the feeling that the D guard should swing or swivel aside and the silver lift off to reveal a working hilt underneath. Impossible I suppose? Regards CC.