Dating Earliest Barrels: the Importance of the Position of the Touch Hole

[fernando]

I dare ask if you missed another part of the text, when you compare it with the Mary Rose example .
The one i am posting is more than 3 times longer, 32 times heavier and has an almost 10 times wider mouth
I know many museum internal staff are not keen to describe what they keep but, in this case, the person that catalogues this example is supposed to be well informed; ex-member of the Portuguese Academy of History, ex-Director of the Army Library, ex-Director of the São Jorge (Aljubarrota) military field and museum of Aljubarrota, actively involved in the terrain research and author of various works on naval investigation, he attributes the age of this device to the primordium of pirobalistic artillery.

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[Matchlock]

Rest asssured, dear 'Nando,


I did get the dimensions alright.

When comparing that monster with the Mary Rose pieces, I only meant to point out their closeness in both style and period, of which I am convinced.


Best,
Michl

[Matchlock]

Next to my haquebut barrel dated 1481 (see above), here is another important and dated piece, the breech struck with the date 1507. It is for a long, heavy-weight wall gun (doppelter Doppelhaken), starting octagonal at the breech and changing to a round section at about one fourth of its length, emphasized by an incised double line. If it were not dated, 'ca. 1500 or beginning of the 16th c.' would have been my classification based on the above-mentioned criteria. The touch hole is on the right-hand side, and a long dovetail behind the igniting hole denotes that once a pan had been attached that is missing today. That pan, as well as the two barrel loops, most probably were added in its working life, ca. 1530, when that barrel obviously was re-used with a full stock.
Above the rear of the breech, a maker's mark, showing the earliest use of initials I have ever noted on any barrel, IV in a square shield, has been deeply struck three times in the Gothic tradition, symbolizing the stylistic trefoil element. There is another dovetail on the rear top of the barrel, for a rear sight (missing), and also at the rear there is the earliest type of a barrel tang (Schwanzschraube), in all probability also added in ca. 1530. We may assume that originally in 1507, there was a long rear socket for a wooden tiller, and the piercing of the rectangular hook served for mounting the piece on a tripod. The muzzle is bell-mouthed.
Overall length 145.5 cm, bore 40 mm!
It was sold Hermann Historica, Munich, exactly 500 years after it was made, 2 May 2007.

[Matchlock]

This crudely made piece is really hard to date, c. 1500, I woud say.
It retained its original tiller stock, showing an early shape of primitive buttstock nailed to the socket of the stout, round barrel, which featured a raised fire shield and hollowed touch hole of 5 mm diameter on top, a rectangular hook and a slightly swamped muzzle.
An old inventory no. was painted in red on the underside of the buttstock.
It was only 88 cm long, weighing 8 kg.
It was sold Bonhams London, 1 Dec 2009.

m

[Matchlock]

More of that willfully shaped haquebut.

[Matchlock]

This heavy three-staged wrought-iron haquebut wall gun barrel (Doppelhaken), ca. 1530-40, was wrought octagonally at both the breech and the elongated muzzle section bearing a blade foresight, with a long, round mid-section in between. The beginning of the swamped muzzle section was highlighted by a roped frieze. The breech featured the most unusual rear sight that I have ever noticed (now damaged). The three relatively finely made barrel loops and the dovetailed rectangular pan, its cover missing, all indicate a rather late date of make. The long, rectangular hook is no longer pierced. No doubt, this barrel was made for a full stock.
Overal length 121.4 cm, bore 2.8 cm.
Sold Bonhams London, 1 April 2004.

m

[Matchlock]

On 15 Dec 2004, Sotheby's London sold part of the armory of Schloss Fronsberg, Styria, comprising a number of Austrian military matchlock muskets, late Thirty Years War period, ca. 1645, the stocks totally unvarnished (the finest of them now being in my collection), plus a large number of broken stocks of wheellock and matchlock muskets, basically only the buttstocks present, with the barrels all missing.
Three of the lots, 157, 159 and 160, contained a total of five earlier stocks, all preserved in 'untouched' but heavily damaged condition, of Styrian haquebuts of ca. 1540, the tinderlock mechanisms retained but partly incomplete, with the barrels all gone. Each of those three lots fetched a tremendous price although all they comprised were mere fragments, mostly of early- to mid-17th c. wheellock and matchlock guns, plus a few detached barrels belonging to none of the fragments!

Well, I found out that somebody from Portugal, whom I had got to know many years ago, bought all those lots on the phone without even having viewed them or ordered lots of photos - the way I did. He told me he was planning on completing all those relicts and selling them. I replied that I had my sincere doubts whether that would work. He offered me the worst preserved of the five early stocks for 12.500 euro, which I rejected. So I kept watching out.

On 26 Nov 2008, two of those formerly fragmentary stocks and locks entered the auction at Bonhams London, furnished with a brandnew coat of paint, and 'completed' with iron dummy barrels the bores of which were drilled only for a short length! They were described correctly by David Wiliams and, of course, did not sell.
The first piece attached was the result of a completely incompetent 'restoration', the tinderlock serpentine, trigger and trigger guard all made in 17th c. style, instead of the original ca. 1540 shape, even though it came from Fronsberg with that 17th c. trigger and guard. The second retained its damaged tinder holder and long tiller trigger (bent).

But the story goes on.

On 17 Oct 2010, the two pieces showed up at Hermann Historica's, Munich, lots 2017 and 2028, where they failed to sell.
On 4 Nov 2013, one of those dummies was unsold again at Hermann Historica's sale in Munich, lot 21. Once more, the catalog text stated that the barrel actually was a dummy.
They continue making their round on the market, though.



Best,
Michael

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Rest asssured, dear 'Nando,


I did get the dimensions alright.

When comparing that monster with the Mary Rose pieces, I only meant to point out their closeness in both style and period, of which I am convinced.


Best,
Michl

Vinced ... but not convinced
This Aljubarrota cannon issue is way far from clarified, i guess.
I have sent an email to The Navy Museum, asking for pictures of the trom chamber in various angles, includign the touch hole. I don't have much hope that they will answer, though

[Matchlock]

Most museums do not reply at all, 'Nando.

m

[Matchlock]

Short, round barrel of a small tiller arquebus (Viertelhaken), with round, reinforced breech, small round touch hole on top, a reinforcing ring at mid-section and a large plate at the muzzle. Traces of red lead minium paint retained.
The long rear integrally wrought iron tiller is now fragmented.
Overall length 30 cm, bore 24 mm.

This barrel may be only slihghtly younger than the earliest recorded actual gun, ca. 1400-10 - please see post #3 on page 1 and
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...andgun+1400-10

At Hermann Historica's Munich, 7. April 2008, lot 1032.


m

[Matchlock]

Of round section throughout, tapering towards the muzzle and segmented into three stages by incised double lines in front of the breech and additionally highlighted by a raised rounded frieze in front of the elongated, swamped muzzle section. Large, round touch hole with deeply hollowed trough on the right rear side; the rear sight missing, the rectangular hole still present, no foresight. Next to the rear sight a barrelsmith's workshop mark of a design often found on Nuremberg barrels.
On the underside there is a barrel loop and a piercing in the straight hook, both for insertion of transversal pins to attach a full stock.
Length 99 cm (Ganzer Haken), bore 22 mm.

Hermann Historica's, 7 April 2008.

[Matchlock]

Of small dimensions (Viertelhaken) and round section throughout, small touch hole with large, funnel-shaped trough on top, long straight rectangular hook forge welded to the barrel, no sights. The long, straight forge welded iron tiller terminating in a ring for handling. Rectangular recoil hook.
Overall length 77 cm, bore 14 mm.

A similar, but smaller and somewhat earlier piece, ca. 1430-40, is preserved in The City Museum of Cologne (image attached),

Hermann Historica's, Munich, 7 April 2008.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Short, round barrel of a small tiller arquebus (Viertelhaken), with round, reinforced breech, small round touch hole on top, a reinforcing ring at mid-section and a large plate at the muzzle. Traces of red lead minium paint retained.
The long rear integrally wrought iron tiller is now fragmented.
Overall length 30 cm, bore 24 mm.

This barrel may be only slihghtly younger than the earliest recorded actual gun, ca. 1400-10 - please see post #3 on page 1 and
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...andgun+1400-10

At Hermann Historica's Munich, 7. April 2008, lot 1032.


m

Most amazing
I know that this example existed, but i have never seen it before.
Such one and mine are practically siamese twins.
... and you that very well, Michl .

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=tiller

Is it a coincidence that both have their tails cut off ? Purposely ?
... or was they born like that ... with a sort of 'tang', to fix them on a stock?

[Matchlock]

That barrel of yours indeed slipped off my memory, 'Nando,


The way how similar those two items are is really amazing.

I don't know why the tillers are missing because they of course acted as stocks.


m