Dating Earliest Barrels: the Importance of the Position of the Touch Hole

[fernando]

Hi again Michl,
I can see that you made your home work in what concerns the Aljubarrota battle .
If memory doens't fail, i guess i (we) have already been through this subject.
I was aware that there are hand cannons from such period being connotated with this battle.
So:
I once paged a little book called Prestige de l'armurerie portugaise. La part de Liege and, there it was, in page 42, a hand cannon quoted as having been found on the Aljubarrota battle field.
After reading this, i reached contact with Lt. Colonel of Artillery Nuno Rubim, a person recognized for his expertize in this field by his pairs, who had written an article called (from the portuguese): About the technical possibility of the use of artillery in the battle of Aljubarrota ... ofwhich i will here attach the link for a humble translation ... appologizing for the possible repetition .
The following was his answer to my question:
In the various survey campaigns in the Aljubarrota field never any trace of light fire weapons was found. And there were several (surveys), the last one carried out under the auspices of Professor Gouveia Monteiro, from the University ogf Coimbra whom, about them wrote a work.
In fact neither was referenced any (heavy) artillery fire mouth, which raises lots of doubts about the fact that there may have ever appeared any example there. But i totally believe on what Fernão Lopes (*) wrote... as i let it clear in my article.
On the other hand i only have documental references about the use of light firearms in Portugal by the middle XV century.
(*) Fernão Lopes (1380/90-1460) was the chronicler who mentioned the presence of 16 trons (onomotopaic name for bombards) brought by the Spaniards and even used in the famous battle.
After facing this apparently solid information, i enquired the author of Prestige de lármurerie (Rainer Daehnhardt), asking him how certain he was of any evidence of the use of hand cannons in Aljubarrota. He answered by saying that the evidence was the logic that, portable artillery out to have appeared practically at same time as heavy one, so surely it was present in that battle.
Having said all the above, it is up to us to choose the side to which pend in this story.
Note, Michl:
I am not at all pretending to question this specific topic in the contents of your study : i have once made this little research concerning only the provenance of my own cannons .

.

[fernando]

Nuno Rubim's article translation.

.

[Paddy T.]

Originally Posted by fernando

I once paged a little book called Prestige de l'armurerie portugaise. La part de Liege and, there it was, in page 42, a hand cannon quoted as having been found on the Aljubarrota battle field.
.

Do you also know an other book where the Aljubarrota barrel(s) have been published?

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Paddy T.

Do you also know an other book where the Aljubarrota barrel(s) have been published?

Welcome to the forum Paddy.
The only other quotation on Aljubarrota barrels is that mentioned in post #35 of this thread, which is published in "Memorial das Peças de Artilharia do Museu da Marinha". However as it is assumed by its author, this example, as well as the one published in "Prestige de l'Armurerie", may not be considered factual evidence. I am afraid that the naming of Aljubarrota may only be seen with a symbolic connotation.
Read the whole contents of my posts #7 and #8.

[Marcus den toom]

As i like to raise this thread from its depts from now and than, i present this (for me) unknown hand cannon, dated! 1485 (?)
If anyone has better pictures of this piece and its whereabouts i would be greatfull.

Auction description:
A Rare Wrought-Iron Hand-Cannon
Possibly 15th Century
Of waisted cylindrical form reinforced at the muzzle and breech, the former struck with a mark between the date 1485 and inscribed 'INII' above, the latter with recessed touch-hole with remains of lead lining, the mid section inscribed 'Taufers' and numbered '16' (rust patinated overall)
24 cm. high, 4.3 cm. bore
FOOTNOTES
Provenance:
Acquired in Basel, 1960

The inscription presumably refers to Schloss Taufers which is located in the South Tyrol

[ariel]

INII likely stands for Iesus Nazorenus (I...?) Iudaeorum, i.e. “Jesus of Nazareth ( ?) of the Jews”.
Usually , it was INRI, with R meaning Rex, i.e. King.
I do not know what “I” means.

[ariel]

Sorry, double post.

[corrado26]

Could it be "JESUS NAZARENUS IMPERATOR JUDAEORORUM"

[fernando]

Or if these initials mean something totally different ? .

Beautiful cannon ... by the way, Marcus .


.

[Spiridonov]

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

recessed touch-hole with remains of lead liningl

It does not looks like lining. I seems that it's just bigger hole of sleeve pressed on the rear side of the barrel

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Spiridonov

It does not looks like lining. I seems that it's just bigger hole of sleeve pressed on the rear side of the barrel

Yes, it does look like that indeed, Alexander.