A kard

Jens Nordlunde · 6th November 2005, 03:05 PM

The velvet on the scabbard is worn, but I believe it to be old. Originally the two mounts must have been en suite, but the lower most likely lost and the silver one put on instead.

Jens Nordlunde · 6th November 2005, 04:03 PM

Sorry, I forgot to mention the the enamelled top mount is also enemelled at the very top as is the loop at the top of the hilt.

Ariel, you may have a point, but what about the enamel colours? Could they make them so bright?
I know, that in spite of what others thought at the time, Hendley for one believed that enamel original came from Turkmenistan. In Egypt enemal from about 1700 BC has been found - so the art of enemalling is very old.

ariel · 6th November 2005, 06:21 PM

Jens,
You may have a good point.
Egerton writes about Indian/Persian enameling as being "champleve: and specifically mentions Sindh as the area producing enameling with a "blue with rich flowers" pattern.
Uzbek/Tajik origin was just a feeling. They made very similar champleve.

Tim Simmons · 6th November 2005, 06:44 PM

This is just a suggestion not a statement but could it be from Kashmir the floral design is very similar to that of 19th century furniture brought to Europe, well Britain certainly in Victorian times. The birds and flowers are also seen on blue Kashmir carpets and prayer rugs. Tim

Jens Nordlunde · 6th November 2005, 09:55 PM

Ariel and Tim,
I have been trying to read up on the enamel thing to day, but I have not found what I am looking for. I will go on reading to morrow, and when I find it I will return

.

In the time between - do we know anything about the colours made in Turkmenistan?
How many colour could they make, and were they bright?

ham · 16th November 2005, 09:25 AM

Note however that the motifs are N. Indian or Sind type rather than Bukharan.
Very nice example.

Ham

Jens Nordlunde · 16th November 2005, 01:35 PM

Yes Ham, I wote for Sind as well

.

We all know that the enamel technique used in India was champlevé. Can anyone then explain to me, why they in Kashmir used cloisonné, and one more thing, why did they not use the past all the others used in places like Lahore, Luchnow, Jaypore, Sind and other places, why did they paint the surface with a sort of silicate or readily fusible paint and then heat it moderately, sufficient to melt the paint but not to cause the colours to fuse together. From where did they learn this technique, when the others used quite another technique?

6th November 2005, 04:03 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Sorry, I forgot to mention the the enamelled top mount is also enemelled at the very top as is the loop at the top of the hilt. Ariel, you may have a point, but what about the enamel colours? Could they make them so bright? I know, that in spite of what others thought at the time, Hendley for one believed that enamel original came from Turkmenistan. In Egypt enemal from about 1700 BC has been found - so the art of enemalling is very old. Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 6th November 2005 at 04:19 PM.

6th November 2005, 09:55 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Ariel and Tim, I have been trying to read up on the enamel thing to day, but I have not found what I am looking for. I will go on reading to morrow, and when I find it I will return. In the time between - do we know anything about the colours made in Turkmenistan? How many colour could they make, and were they bright?

16th November 2005, 09:25 AM	#6
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	Note however that the motifs are N. Indian or Sind type rather than Bukharan. Very nice example. Ham Last edited by ham; 16th November 2005 at 09:59 AM.

16th November 2005, 01:35 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Yes Ham, I wote for Sind as well. We all know that the enamel technique used in India was champlevé. Can anyone then explain to me, why they in Kashmir used cloisonné, and one more thing, why did they not use the past all the others used in places like Lahore, Luchnow, Jaypore, Sind and other places, why did they paint the surface with a sort of silicate or readily fusible paint and then heat it moderately, sufficient to melt the paint but not to cause the colours to fuse together. From where did they learn this technique, when the others used quite another technique?

6th November 2005, 03:05 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	The velvet on the scabbard is worn, but I believe it to be old. Originally the two mounts must have been en suite, but the lower most likely lost and the silver one put on instead.

6th November 2005, 06:21 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Jens, You may have a good point. Egerton writes about Indian/Persian enameling as being "champleve: and specifically mentions Sindh as the area producing enameling with a "blue with rich flowers" pattern. Uzbek/Tajik origin was just a feeling. They made very similar champleve.

6th November 2005, 06:44 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,844	This is just a suggestion not a statement but could it be from Kashmir the floral design is very similar to that of 19th century furniture brought to Europe, well Britain certainly in Victorian times. The birds and flowers are also seen on blue Kashmir carpets and prayer rugs. Tim