A little Sahel/Maghreb panoply...

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Mauro

it is sometime that I do not attend the forum and I missed the previous part of the thread that is very interesting as usual when Iain is showing his takoubas. All the examples are very interesting and this later Takouba is really a wondeful addition to the collection. I agree that most probably it goes back to the XVIII century. I already posted a takouba with a guard that strongly recall this one and although part of the cover was lost there are so many similarities. Just to have an idea look at this post http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15322 Just putting together small information from different takoubas I hope, and I think Iain share this hope, to slowly reconstruct the history of takoubas.
The main difficulties is to have a chronological reference and the best way is to find a photo with a clear evidence of the characteristic of a sword at the time of the photo. The other way is to find a chronological indication on the blade such as a maker mark or a symbol. It would be also very important to have a very good description of the forms preserved in old collection that usually have a clear date of gathering. For sure there were so many differences from place to place, from tribe to tribe and also from time to time. It would be a nice goal to unravel it, at least partially

Thanks for your kind comment Mauro. For my part at least I am satisfied that we know more than we did about these swords. However there is still much to learn.

About your sword, there is also one other similarity worth noting - the use of green cloth under the guard, designed to show through the cutouts in the brass.

[A.alnakkas]

a very nice piece. Interesting how this blade style was used from Maghrib to Sudan and Oman... very well travelled :-)

[Iain]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

a very nice piece. Interesting how this blade style was used from Maghrib to Sudan and Oman... very well travelled :-)

And Europe very widely.

[Martin Lubojacky]

I think there is Osman influence (I mean Turkish) - pls notice the central groove in the wooden part of sheath which fits spiral wire sewing.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky

I think there is Osman influence (I mean Turkish) - pls notice the central groove in the wooden part of sheath which fits spiral wire sewing.

Good point.

[Martin Lubojacky]

Hi Iain,
If you should allocate this sword based on previus discussions and pieces of info - this kind comes from the southern part of Sahel and the blade was delivered from Europe ?
Elegant sword
Regards,
Martin

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky

Hi Iain,
If you should allocate this sword based on previus discussions and pieces of info - this kind comes from the southern part of Sahel and the blade was delivered from Europe ?
Elegant sword
Regards,
Martin

Hi Martin,

Yes, definitely southern Sahel I think. I think the wire grip is significant here. Of course there is the possibility this was done at a much later date on the sword and the original sword had the typical leather grip and was from Hausaland.

About the blade, definitely European and much older than usual. This is of a higher quality than most triple fuller blades.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

a very nice piece. Interesting how this blade style was used from Maghrib to Sudan and Oman... very well travelled :-)

Salaams A.alnakkas . The Omani straight dancing blade is not the same as this...The Omani straight Sayf.. "The Dancing Sword" being hugely flexible and purely used in the traditions and in honour of the ruling al Busiidi dynasty thus datable to not before 1744... and made in Oman.

Where confusion has arisen in the past is I believe owing to the curved European trade blades entering service as typically slave Captains and Merchant swords and termed Kattara here.

The additional confusion happens because the North African blade appears similar ...which is simply coincidental. The marks on blades across the region contain similar stamps all apparently done locally.

Where the blade differs...
1. The Sahel regional style quite often comes from Europe. The Omani does not.
2. The Sahel item is thicker whereas the Omani style is flat and thinner.
3. The Sahel style is fairly sturdy and sharpened or at least often is fashioned to a point. The Omani "point" is round.
4. The Sahel blade being thick and sturdy is not very flexible. The Omani blade is extremely flexible and often easily bent through 90 degrees and further returning immediately to straight.
5. Sahel examples often have reinforced throats... Omani ones not.
6. The fullers in the Sahel are either much broader and deeper than those on the Omani blades or very thinly done.
7. The Sahel blade is a battle blade and fitted as a battle weapon to its respective hilt. The Omani blade is not for fighting.
8. The Omani item is purely ceremonial for heralding the dynastic ruler and the traditions. The Sahel is used for other things.
9. The Sahel weapon evolved in its own dimension, tribally, whereas the Omani variant is directly linked to the Old Omani Battle Sword and carries with it (in the same way) the Terrs shield. The tip is rounded and it is sharp on both edges honouring the forefathers Old Omani Battle Sword concept, thus, it comes from a totally unrelated root... and certainly unrelated to Sahel types.
10. The entire aspect of the Omani Dancing Sword can be seen to be totally unrelated to the Sahel example as described in http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...129#post165129

I believe the two are chalk and cheese. In fact, the only slight similarity occurs on a few commonly copied stamps, for example, occasionally "similar" moon strikes ~ but that is all.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[blue lander]

Would this dagger fall into this category as well? I don't know anything about it, except that the blade is a heavy, serious piece of metal. Apologies if I'm posting it in the wrong thread. The hilt is obviously very different than these other daggers, but It seems closer to this family than other jambiyas/koummyas.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by blue lander

Would this dagger fall into this category as well? I don't know anything about it, except that the blade is a heavy, serious piece of metal. Apologies if I'm posting it in the wrong thread. The hilt is obviously very different than these other daggers, but It seems closer to this family than other jambiyas/koummyas.

Variation on a koummya, the scabbard indicates the Mahgreb rather than the Sahel to me. Something from the North African coast I would think.

PS we obviously browse the same seller sites, did you buy this?

[blue lander]

I did indeed! Interestingly enough, the hilt appears to be made from some sort of yellowish plastic. It's starting to delaminate and flake off. It's actually translucent, you can see the tang inside. The front half of the hilt looks like wood.

The hilt and sheath are both disintegrating, but the blade itself is a very nice piece of steel. It has two fullers (one large and very deep, the other thin and shallow) and a fairly sharp false edge. The main edge show signs of repeated resharpening.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by blue lander

I did indeed! Interestingly enough, the hilt appears to be made from some sort of yellowish plastic. It's starting to delaminate and flake off. It's actually translucent, you can see the tang inside. The front half of the hilt looks like wood.

The hilt and sheath are both disintegrating, but the blade itself is a very nice piece of steel. It has two fullers (one large and very deep, the other thin and shallow) and a fairly sharp false edge. The main edge show signs of repeated resharpening.

I figured it would be horn... Sure it's plastic?

[blue lander]

It very well could be. Does horn turn translucent with age? Whatever it is, it's flaking off the outside and appears to be delaminating on the inside. You can see what appear to be air pockets inside which led me to believe it was some sort of old plastic.

I've attached a close up illuminated by a flashlight where you can clearly see the tang inside. I've also included a picture of where the wood half (left) of the hilt joins with the "horn" or whatever side (right). There's 3 metal rings in the middle with some sort of blackened material in between. Lastly, a picture of where there may have once been a bolster. Or maybe this part originally slid into the scabbard. The current scabbard covers the blade only.

[Jim McDougall]

I entirely agree with Iain, this looks like an ersatz version of the koummya fashioned from a reprofiled old sabre blade, note the opposed carry rings, and loosely the hilt form .