Etching Blades

Spunjer · 2nd December 2004, 06:30 PM

thanks for the reply, federico. another confusing aspect of etching that's been bugging me is this; do i polish the blade before etching, or do i polish it later? on the last kris i acquired, this is basically what i did:

sprayed the blade with wd40 and scrubbed with 0000 steel wool

washed with diswashing soap and water, then scrubbed it some more with 0000 steel wool

thouroughly dried the blade with blow dryer, esp. where the metal and wood meet

polished the blade with metal-glo, using cotton balls and small circles

applied rennaisance wax

so if i want to etch it, do i remove the wax (by heat and rubbing alcohol) and etch it at this point? btw, i'm just using this blade as an example. i'm actually hesitant etching this particular sword due to its 'tiger' pattern...

Federico · 2nd December 2004, 06:40 PM

Make sure when etching there is absolutely nothing on the blade. It should be raw steel contacting etchant. So no Ren wax.

Typically, if the blade is in good condition, you should not have to polish it at all before etching. Just clean it, degrease it, and go.

However, if for some reason it need polishing (lets say the steel grain was sealed because a previous owner had used a buffer on it, or the surface is too un-even for an etch to be applied), I would start with the same grit sandpaper as whatever blemish needs to be removed (eg. if someone had ground the blade with a 220 grit stone, and hence it was too uneven to etch, I would start with 220 grit paper). However, if its just sealed, the about 400-600 grit should be coarse enough to open the pores back up. The you will need to go through the grits till you get a nice even finish. I normally stop at 2500 grit. I do not recommend polishing the blade with a polishing agent, as some contain chemicals that will stick to the steel, and mess up the etch. Also, you are trying to open the grain of the steel, polishing with an agent may close them again.

Anyways, for all new blades that I get that lets say have been stored with bad owners (meaning they are in rough shape). I always clean the blade with acetone. This removes any old oil, cosmoline, dirt, etc... I also recommend washing wood and other natural materials with warm lightly soapy water, dont soak it, just lightly with a sponge. That gives a good base from which to decide what restoration work if any needs to be done.

Spunjer · 2nd December 2004, 07:37 PM

i have couple blades coming my way and one of them might be a good experimental piece. thanks a lot for your feedback...

ariel · 3rd December 2004, 04:25 AM

An acquaintance of mine told me that the best way to polish swords (even Japanese!) is to use an electrically-powered contraption (lsuch as a a drill) fitted with a felt wheel and jewellers Rouge. he showed me some of the final results and they looked very good.
Does anybody have an opinion?
Also, would one use an etchant on the Japanese blade to accentuate the hamon?

Rivkin · 3rd December 2004, 05:10 AM

No, afaik, you don't use an etchant on japanese blades. Polishing them is a royal pain.

Federico · 3rd December 2004, 05:21 AM

NEVER EVER EVER USE A HIGH SPEED BUFFER ON AN ANTIQUE BLADE. If the blade is pattern welded, the buffer will seal the grain, causing not only the pattern to be hidden by the high polish, but can also prevent the blade from etching correctly. A high speed buffer will also round crisp lines. Also, the high heat generated from a high speed buffer can destroy the temper of an antique sword. Particularly for a really old sword, the hardness may not be all that high in the first place, the heat from the buffer can potentially turn a sword into decorative metal. Also heat related effects, especially the hamon in japanese swords, can thus be destroyed. Given the price and tradition of Japanese sword polishing, only trust a proper sword polisher, and do not attempt at polishing it yourself. Polishing, is not buffing, but rather a process of sharpening the sword itself, and thus there is great potential to change the lines of the sword. Realistically, I dont recommend polishing any blade because of the potential of being overly zealous and completely destroying the original lines of a piece.

donutsrule · 3rd December 2004, 10:35 PM

Do you think a very mild polishing compound like MAAS might be too much for the grain on a kris? I have a total basketcase project kris that was cracked in the middle and brazed

and scorched

and allowed to rust in spots. I used MAAS on one side (haven't touched the other side yet) to take off active rust and scorching.

I have 0000 steel wool and (I think) ~2000 grit sandpaper at home. Should I go back over the blade with one of those before attempting to vinegar etch? Despite what the blade has gone through, it's an old one and I think the pattern will turn out quite nice (brass bits notwithstanding).

I've taken some digital pics, but haven't had the time to upload them to anything yet.
Thx.

2nd December 2004, 06:30 PM	#1
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	thanks for the reply, federico. another confusing aspect of etching that's been bugging me is this; do i polish the blade before etching, or do i polish it later? on the last kris i acquired, this is basically what i did: sprayed the blade with wd40 and scrubbed with 0000 steel wool washed with diswashing soap and water, then scrubbed it some more with 0000 steel wool thouroughly dried the blade with blow dryer, esp. where the metal and wood meet polished the blade with metal-glo, using cotton balls and small circles applied rennaisance wax so if i want to etch it, do i remove the wax (by heat and rubbing alcohol) and etch it at this point? btw, i'm just using this blade as an example. i'm actually hesitant etching this particular sword due to its 'tiger' pattern...

2nd December 2004, 06:40 PM	#2
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Make sure when etching there is absolutely nothing on the blade. It should be raw steel contacting etchant. So no Ren wax. Typically, if the blade is in good condition, you should not have to polish it at all before etching. Just clean it, degrease it, and go. However, if for some reason it need polishing (lets say the steel grain was sealed because a previous owner had used a buffer on it, or the surface is too un-even for an etch to be applied), I would start with the same grit sandpaper as whatever blemish needs to be removed (eg. if someone had ground the blade with a 220 grit stone, and hence it was too uneven to etch, I would start with 220 grit paper). However, if its just sealed, the about 400-600 grit should be coarse enough to open the pores back up. The you will need to go through the grits till you get a nice even finish. I normally stop at 2500 grit. I do not recommend polishing the blade with a polishing agent, as some contain chemicals that will stick to the steel, and mess up the etch. Also, you are trying to open the grain of the steel, polishing with an agent may close them again. Anyways, for all new blades that I get that lets say have been stored with bad owners (meaning they are in rough shape). I always clean the blade with acetone. This removes any old oil, cosmoline, dirt, etc... I also recommend washing wood and other natural materials with warm lightly soapy water, dont soak it, just lightly with a sponge. That gives a good base from which to decide what restoration work if any needs to be done.

2nd December 2004, 07:37 PM	#3
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	i have couple blades coming my way and one of them might be a good experimental piece. thanks a lot for your feedback...

3rd December 2004, 04:25 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	An acquaintance of mine told me that the best way to polish swords (even Japanese!) is to use an electrically-powered contraption (lsuch as a a drill) fitted with a felt wheel and jewellers Rouge. he showed me some of the final results and they looked very good. Does anybody have an opinion? Also, would one use an etchant on the Japanese blade to accentuate the hamon?

3rd December 2004, 05:10 AM	#5
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	No, afaik, you don't use an etchant on japanese blades. Polishing them is a royal pain.

3rd December 2004, 05:21 AM	#6
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	NEVER EVER EVER USE A HIGH SPEED BUFFER ON AN ANTIQUE BLADE. If the blade is pattern welded, the buffer will seal the grain, causing not only the pattern to be hidden by the high polish, but can also prevent the blade from etching correctly. A high speed buffer will also round crisp lines. Also, the high heat generated from a high speed buffer can destroy the temper of an antique sword. Particularly for a really old sword, the hardness may not be all that high in the first place, the heat from the buffer can potentially turn a sword into decorative metal. Also heat related effects, especially the hamon in japanese swords, can thus be destroyed. Given the price and tradition of Japanese sword polishing, only trust a proper sword polisher, and do not attempt at polishing it yourself. Polishing, is not buffing, but rather a process of sharpening the sword itself, and thus there is great potential to change the lines of the sword. Realistically, I dont recommend polishing any blade because of the potential of being overly zealous and completely destroying the original lines of a piece.

3rd December 2004, 10:35 PM	#7
donutsrule Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 11	Do you think a very mild polishing compound like MAAS might be too much for the grain on a kris? I have a total basketcase project kris that was cracked in the middle and brazed and scorched and allowed to rust in spots. I used MAAS on one side (haven't touched the other side yet) to take off active rust and scorching. I have 0000 steel wool and (I think) ~2000 grit sandpaper at home. Should I go back over the blade with one of those before attempting to vinegar etch? Despite what the blade has gone through, it's an old one and I think the pattern will turn out quite nice (brass bits notwithstanding). I've taken some digital pics, but haven't had the time to upload them to anything yet. Thx.