dagger series, small landsknecht dagger 1520

cornelistromp · 3rd January 2014, 08:02 AM

landsknechtdagger, Rothenburg museum.

Justin King · 5th January 2014, 03:01 PM

I am grateful to Cornelistromp for posting this, I am keenly interested in this family of daggers with the eyeglass-shaped parry plate, and examples seem to be very rare. The 2 examples at the Met are familiar to me and have become a bit of a personal obsession, although I have not seen them in person. Absolutely beautiful pieces!

cornelistromp · 6th January 2014, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin King

I am grateful to Cornelistromp for posting this, I am keenly interested in this family of daggers with the eyeglass-shaped parry plate, and examples seem to be very rare. The 2 examples at the Met are familiar to me and have become a bit of a personal obsession, although I have not seen them in person. Absolutely beautiful pieces!

Hi Justin,

welcome to the forum.
nice that you like the article, which is a compliment in itself.
Everyone knows the classification of daggers in 5 groups;
Guillon-, ballock-, rondel dagger, basilard and cinquedea.
(hauswehr is placed under knifes)
but it is mainly the subgroups of those daggers that makes it interesting stuff.
In my posts DAGGER SERIES , I try to describe a dozen with examples from literature, art and collections.

thanks+best,
Jasper

Justin King · 6th January 2014, 01:59 PM

Thank you for the welcome, that was my first post here although I have been enjoying this forum for a few years now. I am following your dagger series and have seen some wonderful examples and variations, but I have a particular fascination with landsknecht daggers so this thread finally inspired me to post.
Leonid Tarassuk mentioned in his article that the 2 examples at the Met belong to a typological group of 9, but until now I had only ever seen the 2 and have been hungering to see more, so your example is exciting for me to see.

cornelistromp · 6th January 2014, 06:55 PM

welcome, in this case we share the same passion

I believe that the criterion used by Leonid Tarassuk is;
a landsknecht a dagger where the s or 8 shaped inner guard is removed (cut off in half) to get a better parry action while protecting the wrist.

as an example, he publishes a landsknecht dagger figure 5. of the same type as one from my collection, see

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=river

I do not support this hypothesis, I think those landsknechtdaggers have a flat side so that they can be worn comfortably along the body.

This is also supported by JP Puype in A & A of knigths and landsknechts.
'm Curious about the other seven daggers of this type in the MET, he mentiones.
I think they can be of different types then the ones with a pair of classes.

best,

Justin King · 7th January 2014, 02:31 PM

I tend to agree with you about the reason for the lack of an inner guard, but do not consider myself knowledgeable enough about such things myself to make any useful speculation. The photos and his mention of this typological group are what drew my interest to the article.

I would be very interested in seeing the other 7 of the group, whether or not they have the eyeglass-shaped feature.

Unfortunately # 26.145.43 is the only one of the group on display as far as I can determine, and I have received no response to inquiries about the others, so for the time being the other 7 remain a mystery and I have only found the single photo of 26.145.40.

fernando · 15th January 2014, 03:10 PM

Speaking of daggers, likle the parrying ones, the Landsknecht Met examples and all...
I have been browsing the Web on this subject, due to a left hand dagger i was about to acquire ... which i ended up doing.
Here with the thread on it, requesting you Gentlemn to have a look ... and possibly a saying on it:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...454#post165454

But what i wish to transmit here is this article i came across, written by Leonid Tarassuk, which i find very interesting on this subject ... even including examples posted by Jasper on this ongoing thread.
It is more than probable that you know all about this paper; don't even know if it is already quoted in these current threads.
For give me if that is long known by you; i just wish to be usefull :

3rd January 2014, 08:02 AM	#1
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	landsknechtdagger, Rothenburg museum. Attached Images

5th January 2014, 03:01 PM	#2
Justin King Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 3	I am grateful to Cornelistromp for posting this, I am keenly interested in this family of daggers with the eyeglass-shaped parry plate, and examples seem to be very rare. The 2 examples at the Met are familiar to me and have become a bit of a personal obsession, although I have not seen them in person. Absolutely beautiful pieces! Last edited by Justin King; 5th January 2014 at 11:58 PM.

6th January 2014, 01:59 PM	#4
Justin King Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 3	Thank you for the welcome, that was my first post here although I have been enjoying this forum for a few years now. I am following your dagger series and have seen some wonderful examples and variations, but I have a particular fascination with landsknecht daggers so this thread finally inspired me to post. Leonid Tarassuk mentioned in his article that the 2 examples at the Met belong to a typological group of 9, but until now I had only ever seen the 2 and have been hungering to see more, so your example is exciting for me to see.

6th January 2014, 06:55 PM	#5
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	welcome, in this case we share the same passion I believe that the criterion used by Leonid Tarassuk is; a landsknecht a dagger where the s or 8 shaped inner guard is removed (cut off in half) to get a better parry action while protecting the wrist. as an example, he publishes a landsknecht dagger figure 5. of the same type as one from my collection, see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=river I do not support this hypothesis, I think those landsknechtdaggers have a flat side so that they can be worn comfortably along the body. This is also supported by JP Puype in A & A of knigths and landsknechts. 'm Curious about the other seven daggers of this type in the MET, he mentiones. I think they can be of different types then the ones with a pair of classes. best,

7th January 2014, 02:31 PM	#6
Justin King Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 3	I tend to agree with you about the reason for the lack of an inner guard, but do not consider myself knowledgeable enough about such things myself to make any useful speculation. The photos and his mention of this typological group are what drew my interest to the article. I would be very interested in seeing the other 7 of the group, whether or not they have the eyeglass-shaped feature. Unfortunately # 26.145.43 is the only one of the group on display as far as I can determine, and I have received no response to inquiries about the others, so for the time being the other 7 remain a mystery and I have only found the single photo of 26.145.40.