Bone grip sword

fernando · 18th December 2013, 03:09 PM

There was never a final assumption of what this sword was, posted almost nine years ago. Not a military example, somehow looking atypical, with varied opinions on its and provenance.
I have now found that its hilt is not so atypical, as my local fellow collector found the one here attached, which was also acquired in a local fair.
Although this one features a different blade (Spanish ?), this one double edged, the crossguard and grip are extremely similar.
I now tend (tend) to think this type of sword has a Portuguese provenance, given that both examples were purchased 70 Kms from each other.
Perhaps now, after all this time, forum members have something (new or not new) to comment about it.
Thank you

.

M ELEY · 20th December 2013, 11:19 AM

Fernando, I remember seeing your original post on that intriguing sword. I always liked it for its simplicity and suspected that it might be Spanish Colonial. The plain crossguard that swells as it moves away from the blade base is similar to patterns found on naval dirks, of all things. Not saying its naval, just an interesting design. I guess we would designate it as a primitive smallsword? Transitional rapier? Do you still have yours?

Fernando K · 20th December 2013, 11:41 AM

Hello everyone:

As Argentina (the land of the gauchos) does not think this to be a caronera dagger: generally made with broken blades and swords and bayonets, and always, as a weapon of attack and defense, they had a guard (GAVILAN) (in S, U or a simple cruise). In this issue the hawk is very long: usually it was a simple oval.

The dagger caronera facón caronero differs from that has 2 edged his knife (facon) is sharp, contrafilo loin. The specimen having a machete TOM (FACON). Many exporting companies in Europe producing these weapons to the South American market (Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay, etc..) And Kirschbaum, Broqua and Scholberg, etc..

Affectionately. Fernando K

Cerjak · 20th December 2013, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

There was never a final assumption of what this sword was, posted almost nine years ago. Not a military example, somehow looking atypical, with varied opinions on its and provenance.
I have now found that its hilt is not so atypical, as my local fellow collector found the one here attached, which was also acquired in a local fair.
Although this one features a different blade (Spanish ?), this one double edged, the crossguard and grip are extremely similar.
I now tend (tend) to think this type of sword has a Portuguese provenance, given that both examples were purchased 70 Kms from each other.
Perhaps now, after all this time, forum members have something (new or not new) to comment about it.
Thank you

.

Hi Fernando

I have found those pictures not exactly the same but something near...

Best regards

Cerjak

fernando · 20th December 2013, 08:12 PM

Thank you guys for all your comments.
No Mark, i don't have mine any longer; i've let it go to some member of this forum.
I was ready to admit such one was not Portuguese but, now that this second one appeared, chances are that both are local production, as also showing a 'standard' trend.
A defense side arm it will be, until evidence in contrary.
Fernando K, the caronera possibility is not considered any longer. The blades of these two examples look complete and quite old (XVIII century); their course must not have been other than inside Europe.

18th December 2013, 03:09 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	There was never a final assumption of what this sword was, posted almost nine years ago. Not a military example, somehow looking atypical, with varied opinions on its and provenance. I have now found that its hilt is not so atypical, as my local fellow collector found the one here attached, which was also acquired in a local fair. Although this one features a different blade (Spanish ?), this one double edged, the crossguard and grip are extremely similar. I now tend (tend) to think this type of sword has a Portuguese provenance, given that both examples were purchased 70 Kms from each other. Perhaps now, after all this time, forum members have something (new or not new) to comment about it. Thank you . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 18th December 2013 at 08:08 PM.

20th December 2013, 11:19 AM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,159	Fernando, I remember seeing your original post on that intriguing sword. I always liked it for its simplicity and suspected that it might be Spanish Colonial. The plain crossguard that swells as it moves away from the blade base is similar to patterns found on naval dirks, of all things. Not saying its naval, just an interesting design. I guess we would designate it as a primitive smallsword? Transitional rapier? Do you still have yours?

20th December 2013, 11:41 AM	#3
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 671	Hello everyone: As Argentina (the land of the gauchos) does not think this to be a caronera dagger: generally made with broken blades and swords and bayonets, and always, as a weapon of attack and defense, they had a guard (GAVILAN) (in S, U or a simple cruise). In this issue the hawk is very long: usually it was a simple oval. The dagger caronera facón caronero differs from that has 2 edged his knife (facon) is sharp, contrafilo loin. The specimen having a machete TOM (FACON). Many exporting companies in Europe producing these weapons to the South American market (Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay, etc..) And Kirschbaum, Broqua and Scholberg, etc.. Affectionately. Fernando K

20th December 2013, 08:12 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you guys for all your comments. No Mark, i don't have mine any longer; i've let it go to some member of this forum. I was ready to admit such one was not Portuguese but, now that this second one appeared, chances are that both are local production, as also showing a 'standard' trend. A defense side arm it will be, until evidence in contrary. Fernando K, the caronera possibility is not considered any longer. The blades of these two examples look complete and quite old (XVIII century); their course must not have been other than inside Europe.